Snape's DE past/ What is he up to?

[eloiseherisson at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 44365

Erasmas:
> eloiseherisson at a... wrote:
> > A great many people make the same assumption, which in itself is 
> not unreasonable, given the apparently public outing he gets in the 
> Pensieve hearing.
> 
> I think we pretty much have to assume that that particular hearing 
> was closed, meaning not on public record with witnesses sworn to 
> secrecy. Otherwise Snape's cover had already been blown before 
> Voldemort's first fall. 

Eloise:
Let me just make it clear for anyone picking up the thread at this point that 
the whole point of my post was to dispute the notion that Snape's outing was, 
in fact, public.
I was simply saying that this is how it appears at first sight (note use of 
*apparently*) and that I accept that those who believe that it was so do so 
on reasonable grounds.

But this hearing was after Voldemort's fall. There is no indication of the 
circumstances under which Dumbledore originally gave his evidence regarding 
Snape, so I don't quite follow your last point.

Erasmas:
> 
> In the Pensieve chapter of GoF, Harry notices Rita Skeeter attends 
> the session with Bagman and then Crouch Jr. 

Eloise:
These are two separate Pensieve memories and there is no mention of Rita in 
the Crouch Jr sentencing scene that I recall.

Erasmus:
It was Karkaroff's trial 
> that Dumbledore repeats his testimony that Snape had been turned before 
> Voldemort's downfall. Since Karkaroff's trial was more part of 
> an investigation than a sentencing hearing, it would make sense that 
> it would be closed to the press and the public. 

Eloise:
True, but JKR refers to the 'crowd' that are in attendance and doesn't 
suggest that the chamber is any fuller for the other two scenes.

Erasmas:
> Dumbldore lays it out in the open: "'I have given evidence already on 
> this matter," he said calmly.  "Severus Snape was indeed a Death 
> Eater. However, he rejoined our side before Lord Voldemort's downfall 
> and turned spy for us, at great personal risk.  He is now no more a 
> Death Eater than I am.'"
> 
> I don't see how he could say that if that session had been a public 
> hearing. <>

Eloise:
Nor do I. That is a reason why I suggested that there must have been some 
method by which the acquitted or innocent were protected.

Erasmas:
> 
> The session that Skeeter attended would almost have to be open, since 
> Bagman was a wizarding household-name at the time, and since there 
> was widespread interest in punishing the torturers of the 
> Longbottoms. I suspect that this hearing was exceptional for allowing 
> reporters and presumably other members of the public to attend. 

Eloise:
That would depend on the way which Wizard justice, somewhat idiosyncratic, as 
we know, operates.
I don't think these two hearings, or rather sentencings, should *have* to be 
public simply because there is public interest.

If the session involving Bagman *was* public and Rita was allowed to publish 
it, then it seems odd that Sirius who, granted, was locked up at the time, 
but has been doing his homework since he came out, knows nothing about him, 
other than the fact that he used to play for the Wimbourne Wasps. It also 
make me very suspicious that Rita *could* tell us things about him to make 
our hair curl, but *doesn't*, which point I used to suggest that there was 
indeed some secrecy injunction.
........................

Carol:
> Snape reminds me of the person who works hard, does well (very well) 
> and still doesn't get the kind of attention he thinks he deserves.  What I 
> think he lacks is charisma.  Some people have it, some don't.  James Potter 
> 
> clearly had it, and Snape clearly doesn't.  <>

Eloise:
Except amongst readers!
This is one of the ironies, isn't it?
Does James Potter have his own dedicated fan site?
Does anyone out there have a crush on James?
Is there anything anyone seriously wants to know about James, other than 
where he got his wealth from?

*Who* was it didn't have charisma? ;-)

But seriously, I think it is recognition fror his achievements rather than 
his personality  that he craves, or, perhaps more to the point, achieving 
something he deems worthy of recognition (such as being instrumental in 
defeating Voldemort or, for starters, catching Sirius). I don't think he'd be 
jealous of another guy's charisma as such. 

Carol:
<> It doesn't matter if Snape likes 
>Harry or not; if he sees a way to make use of Harry and his abilities to 
>defeat Voldemort, then he will, especially if he'll look good for doing 
>it.  If he helps protect Harry, he may think he will be appreciated for 
>that.  Even if Snape doesn't *know* what Harry's special abilities are, he 
>still may believe that Harry could be a good "tool" to use against 
>Voldemort.  He must, however, believe that whatever those abilities are, 
>Harry doesn't need to be "trained up a bit" in order to use 
>them.  Otherwise he wouldn't keep trying to get Harry expelled.  So, while 
>some of this does make sense, some of it is still problematic.

Eloise:
I have for a long time believed that Snape is jealous of Harry, the boy who 
keeps thwarting Voldemort (as a baby, without even trying). He just projects 
envy all the time.
If he wants him expelled, it may well be because he does simply want him out 
of the way so he can get on with redeeming himself, or proving himself, or 
whatever else is on his personal agenda.

Or he may have a more disinterested reason, thinking Harry less at risk if he 
is expelled and back in the permanent protection of the Dursleys.
I think it doubtful, but I include it for completeness!

Eloise


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