[HPforGrownups] Re: Location of Durmstrang

Sat Sep 28 02:16:12 UTC 2002

No: HPFGUIDX 44611

Hi all:  In point of fact, I didn't ask - this isn't an exact quote of my 
e-mail - I was speculating right along with everyone else.  :-)

Be that as it may...my guesses of Beauxbatons and Durmstrang pretty much 
concur with what was written:  the south end of the Loire Valley, before one 
hits the Midi, in a chateau.  I based that on the same factors - the wearing 
of silks, suggesting a mild climate, and Fleur's fondness for bouillabaise, 
which is a classic dish of the Riviera/French Mediterranean seacoast.  And 
for Durmstrang, somewhere around Murmansk or Kola.  As for the Germanic 
influences, we don't know when the other schools were founded - whether 
they're newer or older than Hogwarts.  One of my thoughts was that 
Durmstrang might be much newer than the other two, or at least been through 
a renaming, from the time when Peter the Great brought many foreign experts 
to modernize Russia - Germans and Scots among them. :-)  Why not have a few 
wizards slip in and found a school?

Felinia
>
>--- In HPforGrownups, "Steve" wrote:
> > --- In HPforGrownups, "Jesta Hijinx" wrote:
> >
> > Jesta Hijinx almost asked but was betrayed by he email
> > program 'Where is Durmstrand?'
> >

> > > Unfortunately, we are not told too much about the
> > location of Beauxbatons, though the impression seems
> > to be given of a palace like to the royal palaces in
> > the Loire-valley (decorated tastefully, without
> > stuffed k-niggets and poltergeists).  I will assume it
> > to be in a relatively mild area, in a chateau akin to
> > Chambord or Azay le Rideau (the ultimate Romantic
> > Fairytale palaces).
> >
> > Of Durmstrang we know as much that it must be quite a
> > distance to the North, in a region with lakes (I am
> > presuming Viktor Krum knows the difference between
> > lakes and fjords) AND mountains, and also with access
> > to the sea (I am presuming the ship is an oceangoing
> > ship).  This rules out all of Lithuania, Latvia and
> > Estonia, as these, between them, do not contain a
> > single peak higher than 318 metres (1043ft) - sorry,
> > Rita.  In fact, Latvia is no further North than
> > Scotland  it edges just North of the 58th Parallel,
> > and it is South of all of Norway (save Queen Maud Land
> > and the Bouvet Island in Antarctica, and the halfway
> > mythical Sjettnan's Isle in the South Pacific).
> > Formally speaking, it was also outside the Holy Roman
> > Empire of the German Nation, which stretched no
> > further North than the borders of Denmark (at least
> > according to my Atlas of History from school, but then
> > it labelled Yugoslavia as a NATO-member too...).
> > Denmark proper, being even flatter than the Baltic
> > states, is all out, the Faeroe Islands are to small,
> > and Greenland is too far out of the way for anyone to
> > bother going there.
> >
> > Finland has plenty with lakes, but no mountains except
> > in the extreme West and North, where there are few
> > lakes.  Norway all the way up to the Polar Circle has
> > plenty of both, and is plenty dark in the Winter.
> > Sweden likewise has plenty of both along the 62nd
> > latitude all the way to the joint between Finland,
> > Norway and Sweden.  Unfortunately, the combination of
> > lakes and mountains is mostly found inland, a distance
> > away from the sea  only in Norway can it be found
> > near the sea, mainly on the Western coast between 62N
> > and 64N, and between 65N and 66N.  There is also a
> > location near Narvik, at ca. 68N.
> >
> > Besides these, there is a further opportunity, even
> > further to the North:  Murmansk Oblatsk (I am not
> > certain if `Oblatsk' means county, shire, state or
> > something else), on the Kola Peninsula.  It is an
> > appropriately barren area, with a number of lakes, and
> > a number of proper mountains.  The need to be close to
> > the sea, seems to favour a location at the inner end
> > of the bay called Kandalakskaja Guba, in the White
> > Sea.
> >
> > One could also look at this linguistically.  While
> > Durmstrang is a name derived from German (from Sturm
> > und Drang, a literary movement advocating the
> > abandonment of sense), and seems to indicate a German
> > relation, both Karkaroff and Viktor Krum are Slavic.
> > This suggests a closer connection to Russia and
> > Eastern Europe than Germany, though that may be a
> > later development.  To me, it doesn't not seem
> > immediately logical that Slavic students would accept
> > learning in German, rather than Russian, for instance,
> > when Slavic-speakers certainly are numerous enough to
> > justify one or more schools on their own 
> > particularly as see have the impression of a historic
> > form of antipathy between Slavic and German nations in
> > Europe (the Teutonic Order wasn't always nice guys,
> > even if Eisenstein overdid things a bit).  Both the
> > connection to Germany and the connection to the East,
> > reduce the probability of Norway being the location of
> > Durmstrang, as Norway at the time Hogwarts was founded
> > was primarily oriented towards England, Scotland and
> > the West, while Sweden was oriented towards the East
> > (essentially Russia was founded by Swedish Vikings)
> > and the South (Sweden had an extensive trade with the
> > Hansa-Bund).  If Scandinavian students are split
> > between the large academies, then it is more plausible
> > to me that the Norwegians end up at Hogwarts, with the
> > Swedes at Durmstrang, than all of Scandinavia being
> > under Durmstrang.  This is also because of the very
> > strong influence from Danes and Norwegians in the time
> > before William the Conqueror (just look at the
> > linguistic parallels  York-Jorvik, church/kirk-kirke,
> > husband-husbond, (hus-)wife-(hus-)viv, etc.)
> >
> > In the region in question here (Northern Germany,
> > Scandinavia, Northern Russia West of the Ural
> > Mountains) there are four Language-groups: the
> > Finnish-Ugrian (sp?) group (Finnish, Estonian, Sami,
> > Hungarian), the Baltic-Slavic group (Lithuanian,
> > Russian, most East-European languages), the
> > North-Germanic languages (Norwegian, Swedish, Danish,
> > Icelandic) and West-Germanic (primarily German in this
> > context (but English belongs in this group too,
> > according to my source)).  I rather suspect that these
> > language-groups, rather than mixing and matching,
> > would each tend to itself, education-wise.
> >
> > I would rather not see Durmstrang end up in
> > Scandinavia, due to a fanfic-project I have, which may
> > (or may not) lift off sometime before book V.  I have
> > presumed that Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Iceland have
> > a joint school somewhere (In Norway, in my case, as I
> > am Norwegian, and Norwegian folklore is the only one I
> > know much), as the Scandinavian languages are (and
> > have always been), very close.  This leaves for me
> > only the option of putting Durmstrang in Murmansk
> > Oblatsk, probably somewhere near the city of
> > Kandalaka, at the White Sea.  I am wondering whether
> > to include Finns and Estonians in this, only
> > Swedish-speaking Finns or no Finns or Estonians at all
> > (with, perhaps, a joint Finnish-Estonian-Hungarian
> > Institute (due to the languages being related), of
> > course founded by Ilmarinen and Vainaminen.) , as
> > Finland was very strongly tied to Sweden for
> > centuries.
> >
> > I hope I did not get too boring (again, it is late,
> > with the attendant bad effects on my ability to
> > structure.  I have to do it at home, however, as that
> > is where I have all my books).
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > =====
> > "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion  eight-
>houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand,
>six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world"
> > ---------------------------------------------
> > Christian Stub
> > Student of Technology, architectura navalis
>

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