earthquake/Slytherin/Genetics/James/Justice/WizardWealth/Lucius/Snake/more

[Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)]

No: HPFGUIDX 44615

Pip!Squeak wrote:

<< Britain is currently treating its overnight 4.5 Richter scale 
earthquake as headline news. Showing that we are *really* not used to 
earthquakes. Things shook! Gosh! Chimmneys even fell off! Wow! >>

It seems to me that chimmneys that fell off at a mere 4.5 weren't
very well constructed in the first place.

Kronos wrote:

<< I'd hesitate -- mightily -- to call Ambition "deviousness" or evil 
(ambition being the cardinal attribute of Slytherin). Indeed, one can 
easily be ambitious without being evil. >>

I know that the Sorting Hat SAYS that Ambition is the defining 
characteristic of Slytherin, but observation of the Slytherin 
individuals in canon suggests that Ambition is not the main 
characteristic that the Hat is looking for when assigning kids to 
Slytherin House. 

A lack of scruples seems to be much more defining (and much more 
related to turning evil): "Those cunning folk use ANY MEANS // To 
achieve their ends." (my emphasis) Using "any means" means that the 
ones who are clever enough to be devious will be devious when it 
serves them, but I suspect that Crabbe and Goyle are too stupid to be 
devious, and also too stupid to be ambitious. 

I personally get the unproveable feeling that VENGEFULNESS is what 
Tom, Severus, Lucius, Draco, Vinnie, and Greggie have in common.

We certainly have Ambitious Gryffindors (Percy, to be Head Boy and 
have a successful adult career; Hermione, to get the best marks ever; 
Angelina, to be Triwizard Champion) and an Ambitious Hufflepuff 
(Cedric).

Old Salazar himself must have wanted students who were not only 
Ambitious and Unscrupulous, but clever: I can't imagine him accepting 
Crabbe and Goyle as his students. He *might* have allowed Draco to 
keep them as his servants and send them to sleep in the servants' 
quarters (with the House Elves? in the gamekeeper's hut?). 

Ksnidget wrote:

<< However this idea is contradicted by cannon. We have any number 
of 1/2 and 1/2's that are magical. Actually all the kids we know that 
are 1/2 and 1/2 are magical. And to date we haven't heard of any 1/2 
and 1/2 that is non-magical, and we haven't heard that 1/2 and 1/2's 
have non-magical siblings. >>

It is NOT contradicted by canon. First, "absence of evidence is not 
evidence of absence": just because we haven't heard of any Muggle 
siblings of wizarding children doesn't mean they don't exist. 

FURTHERMORE, any purely genetic system would have some Muggle 
siblings of magic children. If magic was a dominant gene M, many 
wizards and witches would be Mm and if they had children with a 
Muggle mm, half the children would be Mm and half mm, so half the 
children would be Muggles. That includes your suggestion that the 
dominant gene M is one that was created by the number of repeating 
elements becoming greater each generation until first it becomes long 
enough that the phenotype is somewhat abnormal and then keeps getting 
longer, making the condition worse every generation.

We can account for magic children being more than the predicted 
percentage by assuming non-genetic mechanisms ... maybe a non-magic 
embryo cannot implant in a magic womb, so only wizards but not 
witches could have non-magic children ... that would work with magic 
being either m or M; mm womb rejects mM embryo because of its alien M 
gene or Mm womb and MM womb reject mm embryo because it lacks M gene 
... if magic is m, it could be that mm only marries Mm, never MM, 
become MM just 'smell wrong' to be attracted to, or m is partially 
expressed by Mm being more open-minded and whimsical and thus more 
compatible to magic person.  

Eloise wrote:

<< Is there anything anyone seriously wants to know about James, 
other than where he got his wealth from? >>

Whether Lily was the first and only girl he ever loved ... whether 
Lily was the first and only *person* he ever loved, considering that 
the more popular question is: Was he bi-sexual? Who were his male 
lovers? 

Christi Voth wrote:

<< But that's not justice, that's vengeance. And I think Sirius is 
confusing the two, which is what I mean when I say his passions get 
ahead of his reason. >>

I don't doubt that Sirius's passions sometimes get ahead of his 
reason, but assuming that justice IS vengeance seems to be the common 
assumption in wizarding culture, not Sirius's own personal confusion.

bugaloo37 wrote:

<< Are the Malfoys wealthy through devious means? And the Potters 
wealth gained through more noble pursuits? I know in the case of the 
Malfoys and the Potters, that their wealth was inherited-but that 
money had to be earned some way-so how was it done? >>

I put some theories of where the Potter and Malfoy wealth came from 
in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/44028

I put my Lucius theory in 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter/message/11945

JOdel wrote:

<< The theory with the widest degree of controversy is related to 
just how old Lucius is. The animosity displayed in the Flourish and 
Blotts scene in Chamber of Secrets is so clearly "personal" that it 
gives a strong hint of there being a long history between him and 
Arthur Weasley. I could easily see him and Arthur being the major 
Gryffandor-Slytherin rivals of their mutual years in Hogwarts (with 
Arthur narrowly beating Lucius out for the honor of being Head Boy.) 
>>

Yes, except I don't believe that Lucius is old enough to have been in 
school with Arthur. My own personal timeline has Lucius born in 1950, 
Sevvie/MWPP/Lily born in Sept 57 to Aug 58 year (Lexicon has 1960), 
and Arthur and Molly (whom I believe to have been in the same year at 
Hogwarts) old enough that Molly remembers Ogg, the gamekeeper before 
Hagrid, which *to me* means the gamekeeper more than 50 years ago. 
They don't LOOK seventy ... neither does McGonagall! To me, Tom 
Riddle and Minerva McGonagall and Hagrid and Arthur and Molly had 
overlapping times as students at Hogwarts. 

So where in adult life did Arthur and Lucius take such a dislike to 
each other? From constantly being on the other side of every 
regulatory decision issued by the Ministry?

<< Another hint of this is the fact that Draco starts spitting slurs 
at the whole Weasley family the minute he lays eyes on Ron on the 
Hogwarts express. This all had to come from somewhere. We have 
absolutely no reason to assume that the Burrow is placed anywhere 
where the Malfoys would be required to have any interaction with the 
Weasleys, so it is unlikely that Draco has ever met Ron before. 
Clearly Draco has been sent off to school well-primed by fulminations 
regarding penniless redheads who breed like rabbits from his father 
(who he clearly idolises). One glance at shabby, red-headed Ron is 
enough to identify him as "the enemy". >>

Yes. I wonder if Lucius was at Hogwarts with a mob of Weasleys, 
Arthur's younger siblings and/or his nephews and neices. If "all the 
Weasleys" have more children than they can afford, then Arthur 
shouldn't be the only Weasley with a big family.

Rita Potter wrote:

<< 2-Jodel, who's description of Lucius Malfoy is just a masterpiece! 
Although I don't quite agree with the 'mistresses' part of it. It may 
be something really 'aristocratic' but I see in him a sense of honour 
and of what's becoming to someone in his position that would make it 
seem quite below him to have mistresses. >>

I have always assumed that Lucius Malfoy had trophy mistresses, not 
particularly for pleasure, but because doing so IS becoming to his 
position.

Deharja wrote:

<< The Snake is associated throughout Western (esp Greek and old 
testament/Hebrew) mythology with femaleness. >>

Hmm. I thought the Snake was associated with bisexuality / 
hermaphroditism, as when Tiresias saw two snakes mating, struck them 
with a stick, and was turned into a woman, and seven years later, 
again saw two snakes mating and struck them with a stick and was 
turned back into a man. To me, Snake is a phallic symbol (I have read 
that Spider is the matching kteic symbol) and I don't understand why 
it has female associations. ("Because it swallows things whole" 
doesn't seem adequate to me.) 

By the way, my post last week pointed out that Slytherin is the only 
one of the Houses that has argent as its metal; the other three all 
have Or (altho' I am a Ravenclaw who likes blue and silver much 
better than blue and bronze!), an indication of Slytherin being 
divided from the other three.

dcyasser wrote:

<< "Come Wormtail, one more death and our path to Harry Potter is 
clear." Who is that intended victim? >>

My theory is it was supposed to be Crouch Sr, and Barty was supposed 
to disguise himself as his father and do his thing at Hogwarts only 
during his official visits about with the Triwizard Tournament (which 
suggests that one can Polyjuice into the living likeness of a dead 
person by using hair/whatever that was taken while the person was 
still alive). My theory is that it was JKR, not Voldie or Wormie, who 
changed the plan to 1) Barty escaping on his own instead of being 
rescued by Wormie, and 2) Barty disguising himself as Moody rather 
than as Senior. I could SAY Voldie changed the plan after Barty 
escaped to him and told him about Moody having been recruited to LIVE 
ON CAMPUS, thus a better target.

Damn! Pippin already said that!

Steve B wrote:

<< Speaking of Quidditch, do you think that the American wizards play 
it? Or did they invent their own game played on brooms? >>

QTTA says that American wizards play prefer their own broom game, 
Quodpot, but do have some Quidditch teams worth mentioning, such as 
the Sweetwater All-Stars.

Iwishiwerehermione wrote: 

<< In addition there is much speculation that Lily could be 
Dumbledore's granddaughter. >>

I am sure that Lily and Hermione are both pure Muggle, because that 
is the moral of JKR's story. However, if Lily *were* related to one 
of the wizarding characters, I think Dumbledore is more likely than 
the Weasleys, because Lily's hair is "dark red", which is closer to 
Dumbledore (in CoS flashback)'s "auburn" than the Weasley flame-red. 
If Lily *were* related to one of the alive wizarding characters, WHY 
did Dumbledore say that the Dursleys were "the only family" Harry had 
left?

To which Richelle replied:

<<  I hardly see how, more like great grandaughter or great great 
grandaughter. >>

Probably "how" is by Lily's mum's hypothetical mum having been 
somewhat younger than Dumbledore. Especially if Lily's grandma was a 
Muggle. We don't know at what age witches have menopause (I suspect 
around 70, as the wizarding folk have been shown to age slower as 
well as live longer) and how long they are fertile.