[HPforGrownups] Re: "Are the Shades of Goderic's Hollow to be thus pollut...

[eloiseherisson at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 44638

In a message dated 28/09/2002 02:56:53 GMT Standard Time, 
i_am_erasmas at yahoo.ca writes:


>  (Erasmas):
> There is a huge difference between seeing others as different and 
> seeing yourself as superior. 

Eloise:
Yes, there is and I don't think Pippin is suggesting that the Weasleys 
*consciously* see themselves as superior (they're quite enlightened in many 
ways), but don't all of us have attitudes and opinions on things which lurk 
below the surface and are not necessarily consciously voiced or even 
acknowledged? I'm sure that I do.

This, after all, is surely where some of the acrimony generated by political 
correctness comes from, isn't it? The outrage of those who feel that they are 
just, non-discriminatory folks who don't realise that some of their attitudes 
may be streotypical or hurtful to others.

It is an unfortunate human tendency to compare ourselves with others and 
mental health demands that we see ourselves at least equal to others, if we 
are not to develop some kind of inferiority complex. Comparisons very quickly 
lend themselves to the elevating of one person's norms (normally ours) over 
another's. 

For instance, I was recently in the US and you can't help, for example 
noticing things that are different about driving in the US, as compared with 
in the UK. Differences are one thing, but if I started saying things like, 
"Isn't it amazing how those Americans manage with their steering wheels on 
the wrong side of the car? How on earth do they manage without roundabouts 
(*much* more common in the UK)? Aren't those four-way crossings just 
ludicrous?", I'd have strayed over the border from noticing differences to 
being patronising and assuming that the norms of my country were superior, 
when in fact a lot of it is just unfamiliarity. I have no idea how you're 
supposed to cope with a four way crossing (and neither did my husband, which 
made for some interesting moments), but that is my cultural ingnorance. The 
fact that in the UK, priority would be clearly shown by a combination of road 
signs, markings and probably traffic lights is neither here nor there.

Yet the Weasleys, for all their good nature, Arthur's interest and the whole 
family's acceptance of Harry and Hermione *do* seem to display an unconscious 
acceptance that wizarding ways are the norm and Muggle ways a rather 
interesting, perhaps cute deviation. 

Erasmas:
where you get the idea that > 
> Molly is finding the muggles to be a nuisance. To me it's just an 
> observation. The key part of that scene is that Harry recognises that 
> there is a witch nearby. He may not have found and followed them 
> unless someone was talking. They're in a busy section of muggle 
> london, so it seems natural that one of them is commenting on how 
> many muggles are around. 

Eloise:
Well, yes. You would think that she'd *expect* lots of Muggles on a major 
Muggle station, wouldn't you?
But Muggles *are* a nuisance, aren't they? They do, after all have to access 
Platform  9 3/4 without attracting attention. Although they seem to live in a 
Muggle village, it does seem as if they are not used to being amongst 
Muggles.

Erasmas:

> Pippin:
> > As for Mr. Weasley, at his first sight of the Grangers, he says, 
> > "But you're *Muggles*" as if it never occured to him  that 
> > Ron might have a Muggle-born friend, and then he actually grabs 
> > Molly's hand and points at them. 
> 
> Me (Erasmas):
> The tone I had in my head as I read this was Arthur being delighted 
> to run into some muggles that he could talk freely with. 

Eloise:
I'm sure he was. But I feel it might have been a one-way process. Arthur 
wants to know about Muggles. Does he want to tell the Graingers about the WW? 
We don't really know, but Arthur's attitude suggests to me that he was more 
interested in finding out than in mutual cultural exchange.

Erasmas;
> Pippin:
> >It also never occurs to him that 
> > the Grangers might want to do something with their limited time 
> > in the wizarding world besides have a drink with him (and 
> > answer all his questions about Muggle life.)
> 
> Me (Erasmas):
> Ummmm ... I have no idea where this comes from. Why shouldn't he 
> invite them for a drink? If everyone acted as you seem to be 
> suggesting, nobody would ever make any friends. The full quote 
> is: '"But you're Muggles!" said Mr. Weasley delightedly. "We must 
> have a drink!"' To me that sounds like a welcoming invitation. 

Eloise:
It is. But for whose benefit? Isn't it rather patronising to invite someone 
for a drink just because they're a Muggle? Translate for a minute.:
'But you're black! We must have a drink!'
Does that sound the same? Would we be comfortable with that? Hermione's 
parents are people first, Muggles second.
If I'd been Hermione's mother, I would have much rather Arthur had taken me 
for a tour of Diagon Alley, explaining all the things that seemed weird and 
wonderful to me.
He seems to recognise Muggles as different without acknowledging that *he* is 
different from their (far more common) perspective.

Erasmas:
(Pippin:)
> > It sounds condescending to me that he says, "Bless them" 
> > whenever he talks about Muggle shortsightedness. He doesn't 
> > talk that way about the  House Elves, for example. And his 
> > Muggle Protection Act is no doubt well-intended, but we don't 
> > usually talk about protecting those we consider  equals.
> > 
> Me (Erasmas)
> Equality isn't the issue here. Arthur is fascinated by muggles and 
> concerned for their welfare. 
> 
> 
Eloise:
Many people are fascinated by animals and concerned for their welfare. It 
doesn't follow that they regard them as equals. 

Erasmas:
<>> 
> Pippin:
> > I don't think Arthur and Molly do any of this consciously, but I 
> also 
> > don't think they're quite as accepting of Muggles as they think 
> > they are.
> 
> I think the big difference here is the tone of voice that we hear in 
> our heads as we're reading the same story. If the voices in your head 
> are speaking condescendingly, then your take on the characters is 
> that they are condescending. 
> 
Eloise:
I cannot speak for Pippin, but speaking for myself, the big difference is in 
recognising that good, well-meaning people are still capable of falling into 
stereotypical views of others and of not questioning whether their own 
world-view is the only valid one. They do not have to use a condescending 
tone of voice. I know good, well-meaning people who fall into the same trap 
(as I'm sure I do myself, from time to time). It doesn't do any of us any 
harm from time to time to take a broader perspective and question how 
representative our own view of the universe really is. I don't think we have 
seen the Weasleys do this.

Eloise

PS...regarding Percy/Penelope....would you put up with a bloke with such a 
fixation on cauldron bottoms? Or who couldn't utter a sentence that didn't 
contain the words, 'Mr Crouch...'? No! Penelope (who must have been a patient 
soul to begin with) is better off out of it!







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