[HPforGrownups] Re: SHIP: H/H, H/R or other?

[Moonstruck]

No: HPFGUIDX 44689

Ooh! That was *fun*!

Be warned: this one's lengthy!

Judy said:
>I found the quote JKR made before Gof came out.  It
>was taken from a chat transcript on Wed, Sept 18,
>1999: "I'm having so much fun writing Book 4 because
>for the first time Harry, Ron, and Hermoine are
>starting to recognize boys and girls as boys and
>girls. Everyone is IN LOVE with the wrong people."
>(emphasis mine) 

> Being "in love" with the wrong people is a long way
> from "being with the wrong partners," don't you
agree?

You do have a very valid point there, though I'm
rather confused by Rowling's use of the phrase "in
love with." I wouldn't say any of the characters in
GoF are in love with anyone else. Smitten, perhaps,
but definitely not *in love*. Is Harry *in love* with
Cho? No, he hardly knows her. Is Hermione *in love*
with Krum or Ron with Fleur? Certainly not. Perhaps
she's using the term liberally. It's a matter of
semantics, but I find it troublesome nonetheless. 

Furthermore, how do we designate these mistaken *love*
relationships? Hermione is publicly seen with Krum,
but her underlying emotional ambivalence (love/hate)
for Ron is also glaringly obvious. So is Krum or Ron
Mr. Wrong (say that five times fast)? Or both? Same
with Ron  he salivates over any attractive female,
but clearly feels jealously possessive over Hermione.
Which, if not both, of these romantic tendencies is
errant? Im sure JKR has blurred the line as much as
possible to make conclusions less obvious. 

>Now, please consider the following about Ginny
>Weasley: I may be wrong, or missed important bits,
>but I could find no canon evidence that Ginny Weasley
>has in any way become a "major player" in GoF or any
>other books.  The Trio has never taken her into their
>confidence and, by GoF, she is, for all intents and
>purposes, still an outsider.

Ginny Weasley is a serious thorn in my side. Shes the
wild card. Right now, shes merely a caricature and
that makes me extremely suspicious. As a Weasley,
Ginny is simply too important to the plot to remain
underdeveloped. Besides, how many characters in the HP
series can you truly call underdeveloped? I think OoP
will make or break her as a potential partner for
Harry  and Rowling has said Ginny be playing a bigger
role. Perhaps Im a pessimist, but my overwhelming
sense with Ginny is that, as the series, progresses
and we discover more about Lily Potter (another
development JKR has said will begin in OoP  and I
fear thats not a coincidence), were going to
increasingly find that shes a modern day embodiment
of Harrys mother. There are really only two thoughts
that lead me in that direction right now and theyre
debatable:

	Ginny is a shortened version of the name Virginia.
I believe this is significant because the name Ginny
is not particularly common and its close enough to
the name Jenny that there must be a specific reason
she chose that variation of the name. Virginia means
chaste, virginal. The flower lily is a symbol of
innocence, purity and beauty. It seems to me chastity,
virginity, innocence, and purity all represent the
same ideals.
	Ginny has red hair  a weak case for hardcore
comparison, but show me another female anywhere near
Harrys age who has red hair. 

I have to say for Ginny and Harry what I said for Ron
and Hermione  JKR is fond of establishing parallels
between characters. It makes sense then that the
romantic developments in Harry, Ron, and Hermione (but
particularly Harry and Ron) lives will mirror those of
their parents. We all ready know Harry is the
spitting image of his father in both appearance and
behavior. It wouldnt be a huge stretch to believe
Ginny will closely resemble Lily, making Harry and
Ginny the obvious match for one another. 

But JKR is going to have to REALLY go a long way to
convince me that Ginny Weasley is either (a) a feisty,
smart heroine type, or (b) Harrys ideal gal. Ginnys
just been too much giggly and blushing in the first
four books to impress me much. In fact, she embodies
all the stereotypical traits of femininity that I find
highly irritating  and of which Hermione represents
an antithesis. Ginnys entire identity is woven around
her schoolgirl crush on Harry. The only book in which
she plays any importance, CoS, centers on how her
seemingly all-consuming infatuation of Harry nearly
topples the balance of the universe and leaves her in
need of rescuing. Please. Does she do *anything* but
sit around pining for Harry?

>      Ginny does not know Harry in any way other than
>the most  superficial. By GoF, shes still giggling
>when he smiles at her (Chap. 5) This is nearly a
>mirror of the relationship Harry has with Cho.  He
>only knows "she is pretty, is a good Quidditch player
>and is very popular." (Chap. 22 GoF) They have never
>sat down and had a conversation. All Harry knows is
>that his stomach does flip flops when she is around.
>Just as Ginny doesn't know if she'd even LIKE the
>real Harry -- Harry doesn't know if he'd LIKE the
>real Cho. With Hermione and Ron, apart from the Trio,
>there is no "we" concept--they just argue.  Harry and
>Hermione, however, have been slowly developing one
>which I will discuss later.

>By Ch. 21, Ron  is injured, and Harry and Hermione
>must carry out a plan using a time-turner, to rescue
>Buckbeak and Black.  Notice their brief discussion/
>argument on Pp.398-399.  They really listen to each
>other and Harry at first acquiesces to Hermione's
>greater understanding of time-turners, because he
>trusts her judgement. Later, when the Hermione on the
>other side of the lake is overwhelmed by the
>Dementors, and Harry's instincts tell him to ignore
>what Hermione had just told him and he summons the
>powerful patronus to save them both, he becomes
>Hermione's mythical "champion."  It's a classic scene
>from Tales of King Arthur that comes next, with a JKR
>twist, of course.  The hero and heroine both ride off
>on the noble steed (Buckbeak).  The difference here
>from Harrys rescue of Ginny is that the hero and
>heroine are three-dimensional individuals who have
>made comparable contributions to their mutual success
>(Harry never could have saved them without Hermione)
>and this becomes a shared experience.

This is a TERRIFIC analysis of the end of PoA! I must
admit Id never compared the final conflicts on CoS
and PoA, and Id not considered them from a
dimensional perspective, but I think youve hit the
nail square on the head. Hermione understands and
respects Harry, and vise versa. Theyre equals. And
together, one helps compensate for the others
weaknesses. I think Ive said this before, but they
really complement each other perfectly. 

In GoF, JKR comments that Hermione discovered the Four
Points Spell, which proved to be a very handy guide in
Harrys journey through the maze. So, in many ways,
Hermione serves as Harrys compass. She keeps him on
track, helps him go forward in the right direction,
and gently nudges him back to his path when he strays.
He would be lost without her. 

There really has been a great deal of build up
throughout the first four books in deepening Harry and
Hermiones relationship and establishing a very
special type of bond between them  so much so that it
would seem to me quite anticlimactic if Harry and
Hermione *werent* to hook up. And what do we make of
Hermiones goodbye kiss for Harry and her particularly
enthusiastic focus on Harry in GoF? 

I found some interesting thoughts on Hermiones role
within the trio in an essay entitled The Secrets of
Harry Potter, which takes a more psychological
approach to the books. Its an interesting read and I
highly recommend it. I think it applies a bit more to
her relationship with Harry than with Ron, especially
in light of the many examples of H/Hr interaction
which Judy singled out:

In each of the books, Hermione is repeatedly the
truth-sleuth, comfortable in the library, who finds
the clue that makes sense of the mystery at hand. She
is always the one standing at a crossroads pointing
the way.Hermione is able to stand up for her beliefs
to Harry and Ron and is not as prankish or immature as
the boys. The two boys value her keen insights and
persistence.

http://www.cgjungpage.org/articles/grynbaumpotter.html

Ginny, thus far, is the helpless, hopeless princess
who, in her emotional ignorance, wreaks total havoc on
herself and then waits for her prince to come and
rescue her. Is that *really* what we want for Harry?
Methinks not. However, the importance of her and her
feelings for Harry in one of Harrys big battles with
Voldemort/Tom Riddle causes me pause. Perhaps it is an
indication of the centrality those emotions will play
if future books.

In my opinion, the thorny question is not so much who
is better suited for whom, but where JKR is going with
the plot and how she envisions these characters
relationships to figure into that. I, too, read the
BBC article a few months ago and immediately
bookmarked it because it was the first indication Id
come across that JKR may be intending some kind of
romance between Harry and Hermione (be it one sided or
mutual). What I find trouble some about the piece is
that it is the only legitimate place Ive read of JKR
suggesting romantic H/Hr complications. In fact, it
seems JRK has done a number of interviews flat out
stating there will be NO H/Hr coupling or that she
doesnt see the pairing as plausible.

For instance, in an AOL Chat, this is JKRs response
to a question regarding a future H/Hr romance:
Harry & Hermione... d'you really think they're
suited?

Not a denial, but not the forthrightness she exhibits
when discussing Ron and Hermiones situation. 


Just to add some more ambiguity to the discussion, try
this one on for size (Barnes&Noble, 2/03/00):
Is Harry Potter ever going to fall in love with
Hermione or is he going to fall in love with Ginny
Weasley?
In Book IV Harry does decide he likes a girl, but it's
not Hermione or Ginny. However, he's only 14, so
there's plenty of time for him to change his mind.
;-)

All right  is she indicating Hermione or Ginny here?


And in her Comic Relief Chat (3/12/01), Rowling has
this to say:
Will Harry ever notice the long-suffering Ginny
Weasley?
You'll see... poor Ginny, eh?..

Does Hermione like Ron as more than a friend?
The answer to that is in Goblet of Fire!

Its very possible JKR is throwing us all curve balls,
as shes been known to do in the past, but it still
seems to me shes leaning toward a Harry/Ginny,
Ron/Hermione situation.

Heres my hunch:
Rowling has long said she based Hermione on herself.
Shes also said she named her hero Harry because its
her favorite male name. In fact, she goes so far to
say that if shed had a son, she would have named him
Harry. My instinct is that JKR thinks of Harry as a
son  after all, she did, in a creative sense, give
birth to him. So if JKR identifies with Hermione, it
would be unnatural from her perspective to pair Harry
with Hermione. I think thats why Hermione takes on a
protective companion/mothering role with Harry.
Hermione acts as JKR in giving guidance and support to
Harry. Or maybe Im reading too much into things.

Anyway, theres tons more Id like to write, but this
is becoming rather depressing and its beginning to
resemble a doctoral thesis. 

-Jessica



=====
"Oh, I'll settle down with some old story/About a boy who's just like me/Thought there was love in everything and everyone/You're so naive!/After a while they always get it/They always reach a sorry end/Still it was worth it as I turned the pages solemnly, and then/With a winning smile, the boy/With naivety succeeds/At the final moment, I cried/I always cry at endings"
- "Get Me Away From Here I'm Dying," Belle and Sebastian

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com