[HPforGrownups] Re: Teachers and fairness (WAS Is Snape unfair with House Points? )

[Shaun Hately]

No: HPFGUIDX 56628

On 30 Apr 2003 at 5:58, Ladi lyndi wrote:

> Any teacher who would humiliate my child in
> public would find themselves called on the carpet
> and I would insist on a public apology to my
> child.  Yes, it's sharp and nasty but I don't
> agree that it is effective in a positive way. 
> Snape responded not in an adult manner but in a
> childish one, he publically humiliated her.  Now,
> if he had kept her after class and done this, I
> wouldn't have the same problem with this.  Then,
> it is private.

Yes, but what you need to remember is that there are a range of different kids and a 
range of different needs in any classroom. When I was at school, I benefited greatly 
from having some Snape like teachers.  They were 'effective' for me in a 'positive' way. 
I'm certainly not going to suggest that it would be true for your child - but it is for some 
children, it was for me. And as someone who spent a large part of their childhood, stuck 
in classrooms that had been designed to be nice and comfortable for everyone except 
me (OK - that's an exageration, I wasn't the only one who missed out in those 
classrooms), I have to say that can be pretty soul destroying. Some kids occasionally 
need to be brought up sharply, and it's not cruel or nasty to do that to those kids. In fact, 
failing to do so, can be far worse.

What makes a teacher a good one, IMHO, is not whether or not they do these things. It's 
not that simple. It's what they do at particular times with particular kids. If they have 
enough insight to know which methods are right for which kids at which times - and 
depending on which kid is involved, the right way can be radically different.

Hermione... well, it comes down to individual perceptions of the character. Personally, I 
think for the most part, Snape is a type of teacher she needs - it'd be disastrous for her if 
all her teachers were like that, but she gets enough reinforcement elsewhere that she 
can handle what Snape throws at her, and come out of it stronger. Neville, on the other 
hand - Snape's methods seem a total disaster for him. They are not going to benefit him, 
IMHO.

But different kids have different needs. One of the real problems in many schools and 
many education systems is that kids don't get that. One philosophy becomes dominant 
and that's all the kids get fed. Hogwarts, to me, seems to have a fairly reasonable range 
of teachers and teaching styles, and that's important.

I don't like Snape much - there is one time I think he moves beyond all reasonable 
bounds - but up until that point, I would have valued him as a teacher.
 
> I remember having a teacher like Snape in school.
>  While I was fortunate enough never to have been
> on the receiving end of his caustic remarks, it
> affected me so much that I would never answer in
> class and this was the only class that I received
> a grade below B as I was so afraid of what may
> happen that I never learned anything and it
> really hurt my enjoyment of learning.  On the
> other hand, I do remember a teacher who kept me
> after class and told me, in a not so nice manner,
> how other students were being affected by my
> behavior in that class (no, I wasn't trying to
> answer all the questions, rather is was my
> boredom because I did know the answers LOL). 
> While I still walked out of the meeting crying
> due to the manner in which I was informed of
> this, I learned that my behavior does affect
> others and went back to the teacher later to not
> only apologize to him but to discuss it further. 
> He ended up becoming a favorite teacher.

I remember having many teachers like Snape at school, and I thank God every day I did. 
Yes, I had to endure their cutting remarks, and sometimes that hurt. But they taught me 
to think in ways that other teachers never had. They ignited a fire of learning in me that 
burns brightly. I didn't come out of their classes afraid, I came out of them enraged and 
wanting to show them what I could do.

There's no simple answers here - your experiences are every bit as valid as mine - my 
point is, though, that no matter how bad a teacher seems to you, he might be doing a 
great job for somebody else in the class. And if anyone is benefiting, the methods have 
value.

Snape deserves to be assessed not on how we feel about his teaching, not on if we 
think *we* would have benefitted from it. But based on whether any of his students do. 
And that's hard to tell. But we can't start with an assumption that because the way he 
teaches would have hurt *us* (or benifitted *us*) that that applies to the children in his 
class.

Frankly, I'm a freak (-8. I believe I benefitted from a very traditional, extremely highly 
structured, highly academic, sink-or-swim environment, with strict teachers, and 
sometimes quite severe punishment. I suffered *very* badly in classrooms based on 
nice modern, touchy-feely ideas which I know benefit a lot of kids and which I am now 
learning how to use myself. But freak or not, I had as much right and as much need to 
be educated as everyone else in school. And the only way to resolve the different needs 
of disparate students is for there to be a range of methods, and a range of teachers.

Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately |webpage: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       |email: drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200

                       "Almighty Ruler of the all;
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