[HPforGrownups] SHIP: Ron/Hermione - What's the attraction?

[Przemyslaw Plaskowicki]

No: HPFGUIDX 75068

Charlie Moody wrote (2003-08-02 20:19):

>On Saturday, August 2, 2003, at 07:09  AM, Przemyslaw Plaskowicki wrote:
>
>  
>
>>samnanya wrote (2003-08-02 03:39):
>>    
>>
>>>The first and most significant wedge is Ron becoming prefect instead
>>>of Harry.  Hermione's glee when she sees Harry holding the badge and
>>>thinking that it was Harry that became the prefect was brilliantly 
>>>shown
>>>by JKR in her shrieking reaction and the simple line "Me too, Harry, 
>>>me too!"
>>>
>>>The sheer joy  she expresses in those five words is amazing. She is
>>>VERY disappointed when she finds out that it is Ron instead of Harry.
>>>      
>>>
>
>[ Nicely-done recap of the "Prefect-Confusion incident" ]
>[ by Pshemekan, deleted ]
>
>  
>
>>Pshemekan:
>>Nope, no disapointment here.
>>    
>>
>
>Really?  You've done a marvellous job of detailing the progress
>of the scene;  Hermione went straight from unbridled delight to
>absolute mortification (a totally natural transition, IMO), just as
>you've laid out - but your insistence that her delight contained no
>joy @ sharing something special w/ Harry seems to contradict the
>plain meaning of the text.  By the same token, claiming that her
>embarrassment @ having just stuck both feet in her mouth *does
>not* obscure any disappointment at Harry not being made Prefect
>*because*she*feels*none*...well, it seems both arbitrary and
>unfounded in light of the passage itself..
>
I respectfuly disagree.  I'm afraid I can't see anything like that. I 
don't however deny, that such feeling might exist.

>
>In other words, I think you're inserting your desires (ie, for R/H 
>SHIP) into the text, not finding a basis such a relationship there.
>
>  
>
No disrespect, but I think you are doing just the same.
In fact, I'm sure everybody on this list is doing the same. JKR's 
original text is being filtered by our desires, experiences, age, sex, 
cultural differences etc.

>>I respectfully submit this to be a pro R/H moment. Especially 
>>Hermione's
>>defence of Ron.
>>    
>>
[...]

>
>I'm really sorry, I'm NOT trying to be difficult or argumentative here -
>but I just don't see what you're basing your conclusions on.  Unless
>you believe that "not getting along" = "true love", absolutely and
>always;  that might explain the tendency for the R/H crowd to cite
>every instance of friction between the two as if it was proof of their
>destiny together.  It would also explain the success of Jerry Springer,
>but that's a different conversation.
>
>I have some experience w/ dating behaviours and It's just not true
>that quibbling, quarreling and bickering always indicate sexual
>tension / attraction / hidden desires.  When such feelings are
>present the verbal interplay is quite different, and the reactions
>to such exchanges are fairly distinct, and easy to recognise.  JKR
>has put nothing of the sort on paper as between Ron & Hermione.
>Their verbal exchanges, their opinions regarding each other, their
>attitudes about life & themselves, & their general dissimilarities, as
>presented on the page by JKR, are entirely inconsistent with the
>fundamental premise of Ron and Hermione as a likely match.
>
[...]

>
>I didn't come into this with the notion that Harry & Hermione ought to
>end up together;  I just read the books;  and when I first encountered
>the R/H hypothesis, I was puzzled, because I could recall nothing in
>the books to support it.  The more I've looked looked into it, and the
>more I've read the arguments for and against R/H, the more convinced
>I've become that it simply has no basis in the canon.
>
>In the interests of fairness, here's the firmest argument I've heard, 
>pro
>R/H:  Ron makes Hermione laugh, and Harry doesn't.  I haven't
>  checked this out for myself, so I can't vouch for it, but I acknowledge
>that a shared sense of humour is an important thing in a relationship.
>Even so, this point (if true) would be more an obstacle to H/H, not a
>boost to R/H, given their near-total incompatibility.
>
>The R/H SHIP, in SHIPping terms, is little more than a walnut-shell
>half, holding a toothpick, anchored in wax, to which has been taped
>a tiny, tiny flag - adrift on the wide, wide sea.  Only its lack of 
>substance
>allows it to remain afloat.
>
>I stand, as always, ready to listen to any argument that derives from
>JKR's text and does not fly in the face of observable human behaviour.
>  
>
I'm affraid you are not seeing that yours notions about relationships 
are not necessarily the same as others. I've so many pairs, that under 
my consideration should not works, and yet they works.
Love does not only is blind, it is also deaf.

While for you R/H is unbelivable, is it possible for me. Humans are so 
complicated that in fact any possible behaviour is observable.


In fact for me bickering is a normal part of relationship and I hate 
when my partner is  agreeing with me - I just love discussions. 
Apparently the same is between Ron/Hermione -- they must like bickering, 
otherwise they wouldn't engage in those so frequently.  If people are 
not getting along they are avoiding themselves. Harry hates when they 
bickers, and often says this aloud:
<quote>:
'Oh, shut up, the pair of you,' said Harry heavily, as Ron opened his 
mouth to argue back.
Hermione and Ron both froze, looking angry and offended. 'Can't you give 
it a rest?' said
Harry. 'You're always having a go at each other, it's driving me mad.' 
And abandoning his
shepherd's pie, he swung his schoolbag back over his shoulder and left 
them sitting there.
</quote>
Look, Hermione & Ron look offended -- they enjoy their bickering. The 
statement that they are not getting along is not true.

Inter-human behaviour  is deeply complicated. Spoken words, only partly 
define what humans really feel. Important factor is body language, and 
what people are actually doing, not saying. While Ron seems to verbally 
object to anything than Hermione does, he often follows her advice. 
Hermione knows, that their verbal bickering is only superficial:
<quote>
'Hermione, you are honestly the most wonderful person I've ever met,' 
said Ron weakly, 'and
if I'm ever rude to you again -'
'- I'll know you're back to normal,' said Hermione.</quote>
While their speach speaks to the contrary, their deeds are confirming 
their deep friendship: Ron overcoming his arachnophobia for Hermione, 
Hermione devising a scheme to distract Ron to not to notice "Weasley - 
King" badges.

What are therefore basic premises for R/H ship?
1. Ron & Hermione are friends.
2. Ron has romantic interest with Hermione.

Both facts are undeniable. I understand that it is only theory that 
those premises _must_ lead to romance. Yours arguments howevers are in 
fact against premise no. 1.

As a side note, I belive that love = friendship + sex. There can't be 
love without friendship. Also it is similarities that makes friendships.

"Do not choose for your wife any woman you would not choose as your 
friend if she were a man." -- Joseph Joubert

Regards,


-- 
Pshemekan