Lupin Loved Lily? (Was: the Prophecy Harry and James as Voldemort's targets)

[Wendy St John]

No: HPFGUIDX 75271

acoteucla wrote:

"My favored theory to explain this assumes that Lupin is Ever So Evil.

Lupin is in love with Lily, and hates James because of that.  He 
decides to strike a deal with Voldemort: Lupin will betray the 
Potters', if Voldemort agrees not to kill Lily.   <snip>"


Now me (Wendy):

Great post, and it's really making me think about some things in a new way!
So, while this may appear to be me picking apart your theory, it's really
me just trying to work through the interesting points you've brought up to
see if I agree with them or not. I'm also in the Evil!Lupin camp, and this
is an angle I've not thought through before. It could work, although I
still just don't really like the Lupin loved Lily angle (for the same
reasons I HATE the Snape loved Lily arguments - I think it's a bit of a
cliche, and I also like to think that there are reasons beyond thwarted
love that would motivate these characters to do what they've done. I think
we already have plenty of canon for Snape's hatred of James without tossing
Lily into the mix). But just because I don't like something, doesn't mean
JKR won't write it. (She killed Sirius and not Hagrid, so obviously she's
not taking my personal feelings into consideration). <G>


acoteucla again:

"At the end of PoA, everyone assumes that Peter is the one who has 
been passing information to Voldemort for over a year before he 
finally catches up with the Potters.  But what if instead it was 
LUPIN who was passing that information?"


Now Wendy again:

But we know that Peter  was spying all along. At least that's the way I've
always interpreted this passage from PoA (page 274, UK hardcover):

"You sold Lily and James to Voldemort," said Black, who was shaking too.
"Do you deny it?"

Pettigrew burst into tears. It was horrible to watch: he looked like an
oversized, balding baby, cowering on the floor."

"Sirius, Sirius what could I have done? The Dark Lord . . . you have no
idea . . . he has weapons you can't imagine . . . I was scared, Sirius, I
was never brave ilke you and Remus and James. I never meant it to happen .
. . He Who Must Not Be Named forced me - "

"DON'T LIE!" bellowed Black. "YOU'D BEEN PASSING INFORMATION TO HIM FOR A
YEAR BEFORE LILY AND JAMES DIED! YOU WERE HIS SPY!"

"He - he was taking over everywhere!" gasped Pettigrew. "Wh-what was there
to be gained by refusing him?"


Peter does not deny that he betrayed James and Lily, nor does he deny that
he was spying for a year beforehand, either. So I think he did both of
those things. This doesn't mean that Lupin wasn't also doing these things.
I am wondering how you reconcile your theory of Lupin's involvement here
with the canon we already have pointing to Peter. 


acoteucla again:

"Don't forget 
that Sirius convinces James to switch to Peter as secret-keeper at 
the last second BECAUSE HE SUSPECTS LUPIN!  What reasons did they 
have for suspecting Lupin?  Maybe they were good reasons!"


Wendy (me) again:

Great point. I do wish we knew a bit more about just why Sirius suspected
him. Was it as simple as some ingrained werewolf prejudice bubbling to the
surface, or was there something more specific? Or maybe you're right, and
Sirius knew that Remus had feelings for Lily, and suspected Remus for this
reason?


acoteucla:

Upon being entrusted as the Potters' secret-keeper, Peter decides to 
use this opportunity to switch to the "winning side".  It will 
immediately gain him an important position amongst the death-eaters.  
Peter betrays the Potters (James makes some really questionable 
friendships!), and Voldemort finally catches up with the Potters."


Wendy again:

I think Peter had already switched long before becoming the Secret Keeper.
So I think he was the one passing information all along, and it also seems
obvious that if Lupin was already in Voldemort's camp at this time, Peter
didn't know about it. Again, this doesn't mean Lupin wasn't passing info as
well, but we don't need him to be a spy to explain anything in the story.



acoteucla finished by saying:

"He kills James, of course, but offers to let Lily live, in honor of the 
original agreement with Lupin.  Voldemort's Slytherin-training comes 
to forefront, however, when Lily is "too stupid" to save her own 
skin.  He kills her in disgust before turning on Harry."


Wendy again:

Here's the big question that your post raised for me: Where does this put
Lupin now in terms of loyalty? Why would he continue to serve Voldemort
after Voldie killed the woman he loved - the woman Voldemort had promised
to spare at Lupin's request? It seems that this scenario might point to a
Reformed-DeathEater!Lupin, more so than an activitely ESE!Lupin. And I
don't see ReformedDeathEater!Lupin as being a very likely possiblity. So,
why would Lupin be loyal to Voldemort now?

I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this.

:-)
Wendy