Harry Has The Right To Know The Whole Truth

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 75777

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "backstagemystic" <idcre at i...> 
wrote:
> Buttercup wrote:
> >>4. Harry should be allowed membership into the Order
> and be able to attend their meetings. After all, the
> purposes of the organization is to stop Voldemort, and
> only Harry can do that. <<
> --------------
> 
> Harry is NOT emotionally mature enough to be part of the Order 
> (especially now, as he's overwhelmed with anger, guilt and grief).
> 
> Plus, he has NOT mastered keeping Voldemort out of his mind.  With 
> Harry sitting there, one might as well hookup a remote cam and 
> speaker to allow Voldie to eavesdrop on the meetings.
> 
> Harry has talent and a good and brave heart, but he still lacks 
> crucial knowledge and wisdom, and those simply cannot be *handed* 
to 
> him by Dumbledore.  
> 
> Those will only come with time, experience (including hardships) 
and 
> maturity under Dumbledore's patient guidance...and he's slowly 
> getting there, but he's not there yet.  
> 
> Right now he acts too rashly and impulsively, and does not truly 
> think things through enough to consider the broader picture or long-
> term consequences...he simply has not developed the scope.  
> 
> There are two scenes in OOP which are worth re-reading in regard to 
> this.
> 
> The first is on pp 476-477 (Am hard cover), where Sirius has to 
> prevent the equally emotional and rash Weasley twins from charging 
> off to St Mungo's to visit their Dad after he was attacked.  Sirius 
> had to knock sense into the both of them, to get them to trust the 
> adults handling the situation.  Here's a very relevant snippet:
> 
> [Sirius]:  "Your father knew what he was getting into, and he won't 
> thank you for messing things up for the Order!" said Siruis angrily 
> in his turn.  "This is how it is - this is why you're not in the 
> Order - you don't understand - there are things worth dying for!"
> 
> When Sirius says " - you don't understand", he's NOT talking about 
> information or knowledge the boys are lacking, he's talking about a 
> deeper, mature and higher understanding (wisdom and common sense, 
if 
> you will) for which the two boys are too young to grasp.
> 
> The other relevant scene comes between Phineas and Harry (pp. 495-6 
> Am HC):
> 
> [Phineas]  "You know," said Phineas Nigellus, even more loudly than 
> Harry, "this is precisely why I *loathed* being a teacher!  Young 
> people are so infernally convinced that they are absolutely right 
> about everything.  Has it not occurred to you, my poor puffed-up 
> popinjay, that there might be an excellent reason why the 
headmaster 
> of Hogwarts is not confiding every tiny detail of his plans to 
you?  
> Have you never paused, while feeling hard-done-by, to note that 
> following Dumbledore's orders has never yet led you into harm?  
No.  
> No, like all young people, you are quite sure that you alone feel 
and 
> think, you alone recognize danger, you alone are the only one 
clever 
> enough to realize what the Dark Lord may be planning..."
> 
> And contrary to some arguments, Harry WAS informed rather 
> extensively, AND warned urgently about the need to take Occlumency 
> seriously.
> 
> He was informed that Voldemort, an expert at Legilimens, now knew 
> about the psychic connection between himself and Harry, and deduced 
> that it would work both ways.   He was also informed that the 
normal 
> barriers of time and space didn't seem to apply to that connection.
> 
> And Snape confirmed Harry's OWN question when Harry asked if 
> Voldie "...might try and make me do things?"  
> 
> Snape also warned Harry about handing an opponent emotional weapons.
> 
> Harry didn't give it much thought or care, despite the urgency 
> emphasized by Dumbledore, Sirius, Lupin, and Hermione (basically 
> among those who are most important to Harry).  
> 
> Harry wanted the dreams to continue, so he didn't bother to 
> practice...and he paid for it in the form of the terrible, and 
> NEEDLESS, loss of his beloved godfather.
> 
> It was a harsh and sobering lesson for Harry to realize how easily 
> he'd been deceived by Voldemort, how his own rashness endangered 
> himself, his classmates, and the members of the Order who had to 
> rescue them. 
> 
> >>
> 5. Harry has the right to know why Dumbledore trusts
> Snape. What did Snape do to win him over?<<
> 
> No, he doesn't.  Just as he didn't have a right to violate Snape's 
> memories in the Pensieve.  Dumbledore already made it clear that it 
> was a private matter between himself and Snape.
> 
> If Harry truly respects Dumbledore, then he'll respect the fact 
that 
> Dumbledore has clearly stated to him, twice, that he trusts Snape.  
> 
> I'm sure it will be revealed to Harry in due time.
> 
> Perhaps Harry needs to learn to trust others as well.
> 
> As Hermione stated (paraphrased):  If we can't trust Dumbledore, we 
> can't trust anyone.
> 
> BM


Your post was beatifully written, but allow me VERY strongly disagree 
with some parts of it.

Yes, Harry may not be emotionally mature enough to be the part of the 
Order, although I think that it only caused by him wanting revenge 
for Sirius death and will end eventually.

NO, I don't think Harry was informed even remotely close to what he 
should have been informed of.

I will try not to start my long rant about Dumbledore, because I may 
not be able to stop. :o)

Snape  would not needed to give Harry hints of why he needs to study 
Occlumency, if Dumbledore bothered to tell him in the benginning of 
this year that Voldemort may try to trick him to go to MoM. I may 
understand why he did not tell Harry earlier, but nothing in my mind 
justifies not telling Harry at the beginning of the year.

Dumbledore told him at the end of the year anyway, so what is the 
difference?

No matter what Pinneas told Harry, Dumbledore's stupidity caused hima 
great deal of harm and  was mainly ( in my opinion, of course) cause 
of Sirius' supposed death (DENIAL, DENIAL :o))

I absolutely agree with you though about Sirius' talk to twins, but 
something tells me that all the young generation will mature very 
quickly in book 6.

So, should Harry be in the Order? Yes, in my opinion,if he wants to, 
even if he is not quite ready yet, because Dumbledore owes him that 
much.

Alla