We can't trust anyone...

[vecseytj]

No: HPFGUIDX 78022

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ferer" <jferer at y...> wrote:
> tj:" And this is my point. Harry can't *trust* DD anymore (well not
> fully). Harry has learned a very hard lesson. But, my concern is
that
> Harry is not going to share this lesson with R/H and I think this
> might lead to; in the next book Snape slipping up, and prove Ron
> right. I think for all of Hermione's smarts, *she* like DD are
blinded
> by their abilities. Snape is going to try and kill Hermione. I think
> this for various reasons... but, the big one is that Hermione puts
> too much trust in DD."
> 
> Why will Snape do that?  For Snape to try to kill her, you must
> believe him to be a mole, a Death Eater.  And why, if Snape is a DE,
> did he not kill Harry (the real target)when he had numerous
> opportunities? 

Me here:  I said he was going to slip, and try to kill Hermione.  Slip
as in oops, that was a really stupid move.  And he can't try to kill
harry, LV would kill him.  LV wants to Kill Harry.  And if someone
else did and LV can't... wouldn't that make Snape the more powerful
wizard... that would bring LV calling to knock off Snape.

 To kill Hermione, because it might destroy Harry's
> helper and close companion, would out Snape completely and destroy
his
> value to Voldemort as a secret agent.  If Snape's going to declare
> himself as a DE, it will be against Harry directly.

Me here:  Yes that's it.  Destroy Harry's helper, close compainion,
the person Harry depends on most to help him when he *needs*
something.  Harry would be LOST without Hermione to help him with his
tasks.  And Snape knows that, and shows his contempt of Hermione,
because she is Harry's friend at every oportunity.

> 
> About trust: Trust is about believing that someone won't betray
you, a
> knowing that their loyalty is with you, not about perfection. 
> Dumbledore never betrayed Harry, nor will he.  The "zero defects"
> definition makes trusting anyone impossible, which means that
> Voldemort is right about everything. 

Me here:  I didn't say DD betrayed Harry.  I said he couldn't trust
him (and I guess I should have also said) *completly*.  DD had his own
plans, but he unfortunely didn't *share* them with Harry.  DD wanted
Harry to be a little boy.  He wanted Harry to be *like everyone else*
 But, Harry isn't like everyone else.  Sad but true.  So Harry can't
trust DD.  Harry is going to have to grow up. and at 16, that is sad
as well, but as far as Potterverse is concerned, how the cookie seems
to crumble.

> 
> As far as other kinds of "trusting" goes, I like Reagan's saying
with
> respect to Gorbachev: "Trust, but verify."  Dumbledore, the Order,
and
> the Trio alike would be well advised to keep their eyes and ears
open
> with respect to Snape, Mundungus, or anybody else.  

ME again:  Yes yes yes.. that is why, Harry can't *trust*  He must
assume that perfection, childish trust in the adults that we respect
and love goes out the window when we become adults.  Trust is earned
and DD loves Harry. So what does that mean Harry won't listen to what
is said?  No.  But, it does mean that Harry has to wake up and know
that one of his parents best friend betrayed them.  And while I don't
think DD will betray Harry.  I do think that DD was a weak link for
Harry all through OOP.  I don't think that Harry is going to forgive
that easily.  So *complete* trust is gone.

(snip)  Mistakes
> don't have anything to do with that.
> 
> Jim Ferer

ME again;  But, don't you think that DD made a *really* big mistake in
OOP?  Really?  I think that DD was the real reason that Siris was
killed.  While Harry blames himself, he was only working with a
fraction of the information that he needed.  And that is all because
of DD.  So, I can say with conviction Harry can't trust anyone even
DD.  
Tj