Harry and Christ (Was Re: veil/Ddore's cowardice? (longish)

[feetmadeofclay]

No: HPFGUIDX 78188

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "urghiggi" <urghiggi at y...> 
wrote:

> > Re your protest that she ought to be more clear about her 
intentions -- that's a 
> fair criticism. But given in Western culture the idea 
that "intelligent/rational 
> Christian" is seen as an oxymoron, it's hard to blame JKR for not 
advertising 
> this stuff. 

Not my fault really that the popular media is rejecting Christianity 
or its believers.  If she truly believes then she could have been a 
beacon for other rational minds like her own.  People who are both 
intelligent and faithful.  

I never had trouble reading about my own religion - the difference is 
that those authors were honest about their goals because they never 
attempted to hide them.  

But I like the reference to school literature.  Having gone to a 
private religious schools, I never much thought about it. But you're 
right.  They aren't going to be appropriate for children as required 
reading. If I were a public school teacher I would never teach the 
Narnia Series even not matter what its quality. I probably wouldn't 
include Pullman either - but he may be too difficult for public 
school on average anyway.

However there is nothing wrong with books that overtly are about 
religious kids. It is good for kids to read about kids of other 
faiths and cultures.

>(If subversive religion is indeed what she is 
> intentionally doing, which is still somewhat debatable -- books 6&7 
will 
> confirm that for sure, or blow the theory sky high.)


I have a feeling she's NOT missionizing or anything.(Though it smacks 
of that to me) She's probably just insensitive to the idea others may 
not want their children reading such material.  Not uncommon amongst 
Christians I find.  Many seem to believe their faith is a kind of 
universal belief.  I wouldn't be surprised if Rowling thought the 
same and never considered the issue at all.  She doesn't seem 
particularly insightful to me on other social issues either.  I 
wouldn't assume her to be particularly insightful on this one.  

>Pullman's "Dark Materials" series to 
> tell you before launching into them that they are books with a 
humanist/
> materialist worldview (one that rejects the notion of a soul or any 
transcendent 
> dimension). (Pullman's books are really well-written, also -- 
technically better 
> crafted than the Potter books, IMHO.)

Pullman is honest about his atheism and he doesn't pull punches in 
his book. It is clear from the start how he feels about it all.  

Rowling on the other hand went out of her way to deliberately make 
Hogwarts inclusive - giving nods to kids who might be of other 
relgions like Finnigan, the Patils, and Goldstein (whose name like 
Cho's was rather butchered).  Hogwarts wasn't religious.  It hasn't 
even a chapel that I know of - and for an old school that is unsual.  
I used to theorize it was a nod to the Old Ways before Wizards 
converted to Chrstianity for the most part.  (It goes along with my 
theory that Hogwarts is one of Slytherin's castles.  I have lots of 
fun stories about the founders in my head.)  

Christmas was deliberately distanced from its religious source and 
isn't even spiritual.  There is more focus on gift giving and fun 
than spiritual celebration.  

Given the framework JKR established, I think she hid her views far 
more than Pullman does. But I wouldn't have a problem with someone 
not wanting their child to read Pullman on the grounds that he 
dislikes the church.   

Rowling didn't give us a chance to decide for FOUR books.  That is 
over half the series.  Obsucre medeival imagery and wood symbolism 
doesn't count. It could mean anything.  PLus that stuff is obviously 
not going to be picked up by non Christians. I had to explain the 
veil thing to several friends who were just mystified.  

She could have at least given us the prophecy to frame the picture - 
very Jesus like. 

Of course it works in a very NT kind of way. Jesus chooses to embrace 
his fate even if he knows it is fated he still makes the choice to do 
it. 


> Anyway -- I appreciate your comments, your critical thinking, and 
your 
> willingness to look deeper into the philosophy/intent behind the 
plotline of the 
> HP stories. I am enjoying our discussion.


Thank you.  How kind.

I would also like to say that as a Christ story I can't say how good 
a job she does.  I just don't find the idea of love very compelling.  
But perhaps someone else can say if it is well done.  I think I've 
seen better but I can't really say for sure. 

I just can't shake the feeling that if I was Harry I wouldn't want to 
set one toe in Hogwarts after GOF. I guess home is where the heart 
is :). 

Golly