Umbridge's Rape (was Umbridge a Half-Breed ?)

[aamonn2000]

No: HPFGUIDX 78251

Matt wrote :
> > Conversely, an assault would contradict much of what
> > we have heard about the centaurs' moral principles.
>
What have we really learned about their moral principles ? Besides,
are those principles conscientiously applied ? From what I've already 
read I must say that I can't really judge.

> > It would be an act of abuse, inconsistent with the
> > Centaurs' rejection of evil (and good).  It would be
> > a supreme act of interference with the affairs of
> > humans.

Well, in fact, I had the impression that from the centaurs' POV the
interference was H, H and Umbridge's fault. It was the three of
them who broke into the centaur's territory inside the forbidden 
forest. Thus, it appeared to me that the latter were so enraged 
that the problem "to interfer or not to interfer with the affairs 
of humans" had somehow already been solved. There are no longer 
any *humans affairs* inside the centaurs' territory in the depths of 
the forbidden forest (something that has been noticed in quite 
similar terms by a previous poster).

> > It would treat Umbridge as a means rather than an end, just what 
> > the centaurs blamed Hermione for doing to them.

I'm sorry but IMHO their behaviour had nothing to do with some kind 
of kantian ethics (if this is what you were referring to, of course ; 
otherwise, please don't take in account that remark). On the 
contrary, they did what they did out of pride, resentment, anger, 
etc., not because they were following any peculiar form of ethics.

> > I can believe that the centaurs would imprison
> > Umbridge, and would use physical force if she tried
> > to escape; I can even believe that they might kill
> > her out of random violence; but rape strikes a
> > chord that is out of tune with the rest of their
> > behavior.

I still cannot follow you here for the simple reason that not all
the centaurs behave like Firenze does. In fact, his own attitude -
compassionate, full of nobleness, etc. - fits to be sure the
traditional imagery that belongs to our representation of what a
centaur should be (1), but it certainly doesn't properly describe his
peers' behaviour. Remember that they almost killed Firenze (nothing
less than a half-giant like Hagrid was necessary to save him) and
Harry, Hermione and Umbridge as well (a real giant this time was 
necessary to save H and H). Actually we don't really know
what they are capable of doing.

Thus, the problem is not : "The centaurs can't do that, that's just
too horrible." No. The real problem is "Can *JKR* do that ?"

Let's hypothesize that the answer is "yes". Then it raises
difficult questions. Here are some of these questions :

Can JKR write about such a horrible event without mentioning it
overtly ? without referring to the person to whom it was inflicted
as a victim ? 
Can she still poke fun at Umbridge as though nothing 
hadreally happened ? 
Can she instil the idea, inside her readers' mind,that it's a well-
founded punishement owing to Umbridge's overall attitude ? 
And last (not really in fact) but not least, we know that JKR usually 
gives hints more than she actually describes things in their 
crudeness, sometimes even leading her to a kind of "euphemised" way 
of writing. Do you think her style is appropriate for such a topic ?

AAm.

(1) However, many posters have noticed that centaurs have often been 
depicted as very lusful creatures (they had a really bad reputation 
in the Greek mythology, except Chiron, whose equivalent in HP is 
Firenze - note that Firenze is a teacher just like Chiron was, and 
also that the two of them have non-centaurs students).