Theory Bay: Ouroboros in HP? (Pretty long!)

Fri Aug 22 15:17:56 UTC 2003

No: HPFGUIDX 78416

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "say543" 
<hesdead_dealwithit at h...> wrote:

<snip> 
>>>The theory is that LV, after leaving Hogwarts, travels the world 
and gets steeped in the Dark Arts. (That part is canon). In the 
process, he comes across various prophecies written by Salazar 
Slytherin. They are full of anti-Muggle and Mudblood remarks and also 
foretell that there will be a Dark Lord (that LV recognizes as 
himself) who will be challenged by a boy. (This would explain why LV 
would later pay attention to a prophecy made by a fraud, SPT) If he 
kills the boy, he will become immortal.<<< 

**********
KathyK:
I think that Voldemort's taking Trelawney's partial prophecy to heart 
(or whatever he has in its place) can be explained much more simply 
than that.  The eavesdropper tells Voldemort the part of the prophecy 
that he overheard.  Voldemort loves power and fears death.  

Upon hearing that there is someone out there with the potential to 
destroy or even kill him, he does everything he can to ensure that 
this child will not succeed.  So he goes after Harry.  Simple, and it 
doesn't involve all the headaches that time travel and extra 
prophecies create.  The prophecy we have now is ambiguous enough 
without throwing more into the mix, I believe.

Besides, we don't know the eavesdropper or Voldemort knows anything 
about Trelawney.  How would they know she was a fraud?  And even if 
they did find out, I don't think it would matter because Voldemort's 
fear of death runs deep and he wouldn't take any chances with a 
prophecy.  
**********

>>>LV, in the past, gradually regains his memory - after all, Harry 
isn't too good at it, and Lockhart did have some coming back.<<< 

**********
KathyK:
Just an irrelevant question, but why wouldn't Harry be good at memory 
charms?  And how do we know Lockhart's memory would come back at all 
if he'd had a proper wand at the time rather than Ron's busted one? 
Of course, Ron and Harry would be the ones in St Mungo's, but you 
know what I mean.  Look at Bertha Jorkins.  Crouch Sr. put such a 
strong memory charm on her that it permanently damaged her memory 
even though he was only out to destroy one memory.  And Voldemort and 
Wormtail were only able to get at her missing memory by destroying 
the woman.
**********

>>>Eventually he regains everything and writes prophecies about
what happened in his past - others' future - to help his future self.
His theory is that if his future self can defeat Harry, he will break
the timeline that has occurred. After all, the prophecies had alrady
been written by the time LV was born, and nothing can change that.<<< 

**********
KathyK:
I love stories about time travel.  It's just the logistics of it that 
give me a headache, making me think in circles.  Like this, for 
instance.  Lord Voldemort reads anti-muggle "prophecies" in the 
normal HP timeline that are attributed to Salazar Slytherin.  In the 
meantime, he uses these prophecies to go after Harry when he hears 
Trelwaney's own prophecy about him.  

In the final battle, Harry obliviates him, or doesn't, and somehow 
sends him back 1000 years to the time of the Hogwarts founders where 
he becomes Salazar Slytherin.  As Slytherin, he writes 
the "prophecies" that he himself read in the far future (but in his 
own past).  I'm with you so far.  He does this in an attempt to help 
himself to kill Harry before Harry has a chance to vanquish him like 
it says in Trelwaney's prophecy.

And this is where I get completely lost and befuddled.  Feel free to 
explain it to me.  If Voldemort knows he's just going to end up back 
in the past, why does he write the "prophecies" at all?  Why can't he 
change what he writes to say, "Don't kill the baby, wait until he's 
older," or something similar?

I know, I know, they've already been written so they cannot be 
changed.  But I just don't get it.  How does he think writing the 
exact same thing will help him in the future?  Why can't he write 
something different?  Does he think the future Voldemort will 
interpret Slytherin's writing differently and be able to change the 
future/past?  If he didn't change his fate, what makes him think his 
next self will?
**********

>>>If Harry was dead, the only one that could vanquish the Dark Lord 
is gone, and LV would live forever.<<<

**********
KathyK:
Why can't he live forever beginning from Slytherin's time?  He hasn't 
got Harry around to make life difficult.  Or is it, as you say a 
little later, that he ceases to be Lord Voldemort because he's gone 
to a different time an assumed a different name.  In that case, do we 
think Salazar Slytherin is still alive somewhere in Harry's time?  
Could he have taught himself some of the deep, dark, magic Voldemort 
learns?  

Your theory is interesting, I just have a hard time wrapping my mind 
around it.

KathyK (who usually takes her time travel at face value when she has 
no ibuprophen with her)