[HPforGrownups] FUDGE IS A DE!!!!

[jazmyn]

No: HPFGUIDX 78712



severusbook4 wrote:
(snip)
> 
> Second in PoA, the dementors left their posts to invade the
> Quidditch match and they seemed very interested in Harry, they were
> all looking up at him, no one else.  Did they do this at Fudge's
> request?  We think so.

Its been made clear that the dementors worked for LV. Fudge was quite 
shocked to think they would attack a child and pulled them from the 
school after the attack by the lake. He was too sure that the MOM could 
control the dementors.

The later attack on Harry was ordered by Umbridge, not Fudge.

> 
> Third in PoA, the dementors try to administer the kiss to Harry and
> perhaps to Hermione.  Would the dementors act on their own accord,
> and go against orders?  The only one that was to get the kiss
> immediately was Sirius, but there is no mention of this.  The
> dementors receive their orders from who?  Fudge, that's who.  And
> how would he know that the dementors had tried to "kiss" Harry in
> the first place, the only one who knew was Harry and he remained
> unconscious until Fudge had already told DD about the
> attempted "kiss".  Fudge knew because he had orered it, and to save
> face, he had to order the dementors back to Azkaban, even after
> Sirius had escaped once again.

Its clear that they would not only go against orders of the MOM, but 
they even deserted the MOM to join LV.  Its clear that the dementors are 
on LV's side, not Fudge's.

> 
> Fourth in PoA, If Fudge thought Harry and friends were actually
> under Sirius' control, he would still believe Harry and friends were
> in danger from Sirius, and the dementors would have remained, even
> against DD wishes.  Harry and friends were the only one's defending
> Sirius, and Snape and Fudge said that they had be cunfunded, so how
> would Fudge know Sirius would not attempt to kill Harry again,
> because Fudge knew Sirius was after Peter in the first place, and
> Fudge was trying to protect Peter.  Peter had escaped, as Harry,
> Hermione, and Ron told them.  So it was safe for the dementors to go
> back to Azkaban, Peter was safe from Sirius.

The Dementors proved a danger to the students and Fudge had to pull them 
or the parents would have fits if it got out that they attempted to 
'kiss' a student.

> 
> Fifth in GoF, the pensieve incident, Karkaroff states "...we never
> knew the names of everyone of our fellows...He alone knew who we all
> were..."  This statement gives further proof of the possibility of
> Fudge being a DE, because if know one knew except LV, then one one
> could rat him out.
> 

This doesn't mean anything other then the DEs didn't know each other. I 
am guessing that this is not totally correct as LV called them by name 
AND some could likely recognized the voices of others. Karkaroff didn't 
strike me as that bright..

> Sixth in GoF, Crouch would have been getting orders from Fudge
> during the Tri Wizard Tourney and that would be the reason he helped
> Harry with the tasks, whether it was trough Cedrick, Moody, or
> himself.  Crouch told Cedrick how to read the second clue and in
> turn knew Cedrick would tell Harry, since Harry had helped him with
> the first task. 

The fact he had his own father under the Imperious Curse wouldn't be a 
factor in what he knew about the tasks, now would it? Or the fact that 
the teachers all knew what the tasks were? (sarcasm)

> 
> Seventh in GoF, Moody was hired by DD, who else would know except
> the MOM?  Fudge then told Crouch Jr. to take Moody's place in order
> to facilitate Harry winning the cup.  Why else would Fudge have the
> kiss administered so quickly to Crouch Jr. after his capture?  So
> Crouch Jr. could not tell of Fudge's involvement.

The other teachers would know. At the MOM, Crouch Sr would know and 
maybe slip and mention it in front of Jr, who tells LV, etc.

> 
> Eighth in GoF, LV states "...I shall have all my devoted servants
> returned to me, and an army of creatures whom all fear."  Could LV
> be speaking of the creatures that Luna Lovegood says Fudge is
> secretly breeding?

If he IS breeding them, then there are others in the MOM who would know 
about it.  The creatures LV is talking about are likely the giants, plus 
perhaps vampires or somesuch.  Perhaps he knows enough about centaurs to 
trick them into fighting for him, without them knowing they are fighting 
FOR him.  I think perhaps Bane might be under LV's payroll, promised 
something in exchange for turning the centaurs against humans?  LV would 
not care if the centaurs were wiped out in the fight, as they would be 
just 'tools'.

> 
> And finally in OotP, Umbridge, who sent the dementors to "kiss"
> Harry.  Umbridge, who had all the power to do what she wanted at
> Hogwarts.  Umbridge, who undermined the DADA class so the students
> could not stand a chance in a battle against the dark arts. Which
> would make it easier for LV to regain power, there would be no one
> trained to stop him.  Where did she receive this power?  Fudge,he
> apointed her high inquisitor at Hogwarts and he signed all the
> decrie's <sp?> she wanted.  Also, Fudge's accusation of DD creating
> an army to over throw him is just a clever cover up, (even though DD
> turned the job down), so he could do as he pleased. 

I think Umbridge had her own agenda and was using Fudge's paranoia 
against him. Fudge is easily swayed by fear. No doubt Malfoy was bending 
his ear too and greasing his palm with lots of gold, but that makes 
Fudge a greedy, frightened fool, not a DE.  His fear and greed make him 
easy to push around, but I think he would come unglued at the idea of 
outright joining LV.  Its more likely he was doing LV's work through 
manipulation by Malfoy, then doing any of this because he was a DE. No, 
Fudge is not a DE, just a foolish man who can't see he is being used. 
Now that Malfoy was caught, maybe the shock will make him realize that 
DD was right all along and that Fudge could not stick his head in the 
sand and pretend that LV was not back in power.


> 
> O.K., just one more.  Why did Fudge try to punish Harry for the
> underage use of magic so ferverently in the MOM?  Harry had a
> serious reason for that use of magic, but all the other times,
> Dobbies levitation of the cake, Harry blowing up his aunt, had been
> delt with very lightly. Fudge had a means to further discredit Harry
> and possibly have him removed from the situation totally.  By
> further discredit of Harry, it is easier to discredit DD by
> associating them so closely, ie; "DD must be crazy to believe this
> boy. Look at all he's done."  Fudge tried to use this to his
> advantage through the local paper.

Note that Malfoy was hanging around. Bet he was filling Fudge's head 
full of ideas about Harry while paying him 'handsome donations'.  Just 
because he is a greedy politician, does not mean Fudge has the dark mark.

> 
> One final question, does everyone think Fudge is an idiot?  He did
> become MOM some how.  Do you think that he would be this clueless in
> all the signs pointing to LV's resurection?  Fudge knew, but he also
> knew LV needed time to gain his army back, and Fudge was able to
> deny his existence with plausible deniability. 
> 

Fudge was blinded by his own fears.  He did not want to deal with the 
fact that LV had returned while he was the minister of magic, as many 
people might blame HIM for it.  He feared that people wanted DD to take 
over as DD is the only one that LV fears.  He tried to cover it up and 
pretend it wasn't happening, rather then face it.  Fudge is a coward, 
not a DE.  If he were a DE, the dementors would have left Askaban the 
moment that LV rose again.  As for Umbridge, I think 'maybe' Malfoy 
suggested (with a little gold) that his good friend be allowed to be the 
  new DEDE teacher.  Or Umbridge was again the only one who applied. No, 
I don't think she is a DE, but she does know Malfoy, as evidenced by her 
comment to Snape.  Knowing Malfoy doesn't make you a DE, but I bet his 
gold pulled a lot of strings with people who he felt could be controlled 
by their own fear or greed.  Gold does in fact 'buy friends' to a point.

What will happen now that Malfoy isn't there with the golden carrot to 
dangle in front of people, we can only guess. I would think things are 
going to get real nasty now..

Umbridge a DE?  No. Shes too much a loose canon for LV's inner circle. 
but she can be controlled by her greed and wish for power. Also I think 
she would have stuck out like a sore thumb in the 'circle' in the 
graveyard.  Controlled by a DE with promises of money or power, perhaps. 
  But not knowingly working for LV.

Fudge a DE?  No. I do not feel he is knowingly working for LV, but being 
  controlled by people who are excellent at manipulating others with 
money and playing on Fudge's fears of losing his position.. such as.. 
Malfoy.. Fudge greatly fears LV's return and would not  knowingly join 
the DEs.

As was said, not every evil person is a DE.  To be a DE, you have to 
WANT to be one.  There are apt to be many in the end who UNKNOWINGLY did 
things to help LV, who would have died rather then become a DE.  LV and 
his DEs are very good at using others and manipulation.  Even Harry has 
been manipulated by LV, but does that make him a Jr DE?

> Severus "I'm not a DE, He is." Snape
> 
> 


Jazmyn