Time-Travel- why Harry *can* save himself (was: POA Dementor Kiss on Harry)

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 78975

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Talisman" <talisman22457 at y...>
wrote:

>  
>  Laurasia: 
> > Your premise that we are always stuck with a soul-sucked Harry 
> unless  someone else saves him relies on one thing- that there has 
> to be a `first time' that time occurs in which no-one has gone back 
> in time. 
> 
> Talisman: 
> Indeed, every one of your theories acknowledges the same 
> premise.  But, let's distinguish time as a dimension versus time as 
> an instance or occurance.  
> 
> Laurasia:
> That is- because you believe that Time happens multiple times 
> > . . .<snip> This is a great theory- except that Time doesn't have 
> to function multiple times. Instead of  thinking about Time 
> occurring many times over, think about time only ever happening
>  once.
> > 
> Talisman:
> You apparently didn't comprehend the post.  If you will re-read  
> #78370, you will find that I devote a good deal of time explaining 
> how Harry can't save himself in a "one seamless time/multiple 
> experiences" scenerio. 
> 
> ...edited...
> 
> Talisman, 


bboy_mn:
Well, you say that you debunked the "one seamless time/multiple 
experiences" scenerio in post #78370, but I don't see it. You cetainly
mention it, you certainly reached conclusions, but I don't see that
you established those conclusions.

Here are a couple of interesting posts that might help you gain a
different perspective in time travel. I will add that these are my posts.

Quick Look at Time Travel
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/57776

Hermione Aging via Time turner
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/53555

You point out that we must be careful about how we regard time;
whether it is an event or a dimension. 

I agree, and will add that time is RELATIVE (Thank you Dr. Einstein).
We have one immutable source of time which is neutral and independant,
marching ever forward; I call that the timeline. Then we have people's
perception of that passage of time, and we have time as a biological
event; the wearing down of the human body.

In the timeline, three Hermiones existed at once; relative to the
timeline, Hermione lives one hour as three parallel occurances. But
from Hermione's perspective and from the perspective of the biological
passing of time (wear and tear), Hermione sees three consecutive
hours. Remember time is relative, what you see depends on the
perspective you view it from.

This is what the timeline sees-
9:00AM - three Hermiones appear at the doorway to three separate
classrooms (say Arithmacy, Ancient Runes, and Tranfiguration), and
then she takes those classes in parallel thereby allowing her to be in
all three classes at once which in neutral unbiased time is one hour.

What Hermione sees-
9:00AM to 10:00AM - Hermione goes to Transfigurations, at 10AM she
time travels back to 9AM.

9:00AM to 10:00AM - Hermione goes to Ancient Runes, at 10AM she time
travels back to 9AM.

9:00AM to 10:00PM - Hermione goes to Arithmacy, at 10AM she goes to
her first 10AM class.


Three Hermione's appear at 9:00am and take all three classes. From
Hermione's perspective, she takes three consecutive classes, and lives
three consecutive hours. We only seen the passing of one hour, if we
take the perspective of the immutable, neutral, and independant timeline.

On the night of the Dementors in PoA, the neutral unbiased timeline
proceeds forward 24 hours in that one day. From the perspective of
Harry and Hermione, and their biological mechanisms, the day is
actually 27 hours long. Within the confines of that 24 hour timeline,
Harry and Hermione experience 27 hours of linear time.

Expanding this to Hermione's studies and time travel through out the
school years, the rest of the students have experienced 10 months of
time both in the timeline and in their perspective. Hermione because
of her time travels has experienced 10 months and 33 days. That's why
Hermione is always so tired, because in biological self-perceived
time, Hermione is living 30 hour days. 

Getting back to the PoA night of the Dementors, at approximately
9:00PM, the original Harry and Hermione along with Ron are hiding in
the entrance hall, and just miss the time traveling Harry and Hermione
as they appear in the entrance hall and hide in the cupboard. JKR
makes a point of showing us this scene from the perspective of both
parties, and imples that each hears the other's footsteps. This is JKR
 hint pointing us to the fact that the first, and one and only time
through these events, both sets of Harry and Hermione were there. 

In the linear, unbiased, neutral timeline at the one and only time
9:00PM occurred, both Harry and Hermione, and time travel Harry and
Hermione are there. Since TT!Harry is there, having arrived at 9pm, he
is there and available at approx 11:30pm to save himself from the
Dementors.

So in summary, Time is Relative; in the neutral time line, TT!Harry
and TT!Hermione were always there because they arrived at 9pm, and 9pm
only occurs once. From the perceived passing of time and in biological
time, Harry and Hermione experience 9pm twice, but that is a
perception that is relative to their point of view.

Harry was always there because he arrived at 9pm in the linear
unbiased timeline; saving himself occurred after 9pm.

Just a thought.

bboy_mn