Time-Travel- why Harry *can* save himself

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 79000

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Carolina <silmariel at t...> wrote:
>  Steve:
> > In the linear, unbiased, neutral timeline at the one and only
> > time 9:00PM occurred, both Harry and Hermione, and time travel
> > Harry and Hermione are there. Since TT!Harry is there, having
> > arrived at 9pm, he is there and available at approx 11:30pm to
> > save himself from the Dementors.

> Carolina:
> 
> 9:00 PM only  happens once, but the events taking place at 9:00 
> change. Before HH went back in time, there was not footsteps, later 
> it changed so timeline changed to include HH footsteps. We only see 
> the changed version of events, which include footsteps.
> 

bboy_mn:
I understand that you are trying to get me to see these events from an
alternate perspective, but I'm not swayed. I am firmly entrenched in
the idea that time only occurs one. That time marches ever forward.
That every yesterday is followed by today, and every today is followed
by tomorrow. It is not time that goes back, it is people who go back.

If I do understand you correctly, you are in the 'it happened twice'
camp. And are saying that the version of 9PM that I see is the final
resulting version of 9PM, and in that, you are implying that I am
missing, or ignoring, all the previous versions of 9PM that lead up to
that final version. That is a valid theory, and in the realm of
fiction, is possible, but is it likely? In that light, I say, the book
doesn't seem to support your theory

In the book, we have one and only one account of time, although that
one account is given from two perspectives.

In the one and only account of the neutral unbias timeline, at
approximately 9PM, TT!Harry and TT!Hermione (TT!=Time Travel) hear
Harry/Hermione/Ron in the entrance hall, AND at a slightly different
time, Harry/Hermione/Ron hear TT!Harry and TT!Hermione running into
the broom cupboard to hide.

This hearing of footstep is a big CLUE that JKR drops to let us know
that TT!Harry-the Saver was there at 9PM, although something we don't
realize until after the fact, and being there, he was available to
save himself approx. 2.5 hours later. 

I see TT!Harry entering the timeline at 9pm as a historical event. As
the timeline moved forward that night, TT!Harry's appearance at
approx. 9PM became a historically documented event, and in that sense,
I take it as a absolute fact; absolute fictional fact. 


> > bboy_mn org:
> > From the perceived passing of time and in biological time, Harry 
> > and Hermione experience 9pm twice, but that is a perception that 
> > is relative to their point of view.

> Carolina responds:
> 
> One linear unbiased neutral timeline, multiple instances, what 
> Talisman said. Hermione ages, that's clear, I don't see how it 
> contradicts multiple instances.

> > bboy_mn org:
> > Harry was always there because he arrived at 9pm in the linear
> > unbiased timeline; saving himself occurred after 9pm.
> 
> Harry couldn't have arrived at 9pm if dementorized.
> 
> ...edited...
> 
> silmariel

bboy_mn:
By 'multiple instance' are you referring to the 'it happened twice'
theory? One instance without TT!Harry and one instance with? Although,
I see it now, that may not have been the way I originally interpreted
'multiple instance'; I concede I may have confused the point. 

My test for subjective truth, or validation of theories, in not is it
possible, because I concede that it is possible, but is it likely? The
problem with the 'it happened twice' theory is that it leaves
questions unresolved. You bring up the very question that makes that
theory, while possible, very unlikely.

If, in the first instance of time, Harry was kissed by the Dementor
then he would not have the functional capability to send himself back
in time to save himself. Even if he could have been sent back in time,
he would have gone as a mindless soulless zombie, and could not have
helped himself. This is an unresolvable paradox; damned if he does,
damned if he doesn't.

The only way to resolve this conflict, is to accept linear 'time
happens once' as a solution. That's the very reason I am so firmly
entrench in this theory, because it has the fewest, or in my opinion
no, unresolvable problems.

So barring an ongoing misunderstandings on my part, I get 'it happened
twice', I just don't accept it.  

Just a thought.

bboy_mn, who is always up for a good time travel discussion even
though he knows it can never be resolved.