Prophets without Honour

[jwcpgh]

No: HPFGUIDX 79333

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, B Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
<snip>  > So why are we so obsessed, spending hours beating our heads 
against
>  > *that* prophecy?
>  >
>  > Throughout the series divination in any form is presented as a
>  > 'pretend' subject. 'Pretend' it means something, 'pretend' to do
> the
>  > set homework, 'pretend' that even if real seers exist, it can be
> taught
>  > to non-seers. Yet we are expected to take two supposed prophecies
> as
>  > serious predictions, capable of definitive interpretation. 
Really?
> 
> <remainder snipped>
> 
> Laura:
> 
 if in
> fact the prophecy is a red herring, why did JKR spend so much time 
on
> it? > 
> Kneasy again:

> Are you a film buff? Remember the concept of the McGuffin?
> Much loved by masters such as Hitchcock. A device which keeps 
everyone 
> busy, but is of no significance otherwise. The classic is probably 
The 
> Maltese Falcon. I'm not saying that this is the case, but after 
weeks  
> of getting nowhere I'm ready to start grasping at straws.
> 
> I can't quite see how it would have stopped Harry's interest in the 
> corridor dreams. While they were progressing Harry did not know 
what 
> they signified, just that it was something compulsive. Never having 
> been there, he couldn't be expected to recognise the Dept.  of 
> Mysteries until too late. I doubt warnings from DD would have made 
any 
> difference; Harry is not naturally compliant.
> 
> I see DD as the Ultimate Pragmatist; not evil but ready to grit his 
> teeth and do the necessary, even if it requires casualties on the 
side 
> of good. Why didn't he confide in the others? Well, when you're the 
> puppetmaster, it doesn't do to let the puppets know how they are 
being 
> manipulated.
> 
> What we don't know is whether DD is also being manipulated by JKR. 
Is 
> the prophecy valid? Can we trust Trelawney to turn out a real, 
> complete, accurate prophesy? I suspect not. That's the way the 
canon 
> leans in its  treatment of Divination. But taking that line 
complicates 
>   things enormously. Who can be trusted? Either, (if so, which?) 
both, 
> or neither? Does it matter in the scheme of things or will it turn 
out 
> to be the McGuffin? We'll probably find out sooner or later, but 
> meanwhile it's teeth-gnashing time.
> 
> Kneasy
>

Laura again:

Well, I suppose the prophecy could be a Mcguffin, except that usually 
those are used to kick-start a story (if I recall my film classes 
correctly).  That is, it's a structural device used to get the plot 
started.  In this case, it's a bit late in the day to think of the 
prophecy as getting the story rolling-it's already accelerating at a 
dangerous rate. <g>

The thing that puzzles me about this prophecy plotline is that DD has 
deduced everything that LV is likely to do well in advance of his 
actual actions.  DD knows that LV wants the prophecy.  He knows that 
LV will discover that only he or Harry can get it.  He knows that LV 
will soon figure out that he can manipulate Harry's mind.  But he 
also knows that the prophecy isn't reliable.  And he knows that 
whether or not LV learns the rest of it, his actions will be the same-
to try to eliminate Harry.  Yet he lets the whole catastrophe play 
out.  It would have been very easy to tell Harry that the Order was 
aware of what LV was doing and was letting him do it because it was 
really a waste of LV's time and effort and thus would keep him and 
his little friends harmlessly busy.  Harry would have understood that 
his dreams and visions meant that the Order's strategy was working, 
and could have dismissed them more easily.  

But instead, DD acts as though this prophecy is truly significant 
(i.e., in the discussion he has with Harry at the end of OoP).  
That's what I don't understand.  Usually everyone in the story is 
taken in by a Mcguffin.  Here, DD seems to be perfectly aware that 
it's a fraud-but he lets everyone else think differently.  

I don't agree completely that DD is ultimately a pragmatist.  If that 
were the case, he would have clued Harry in a long time ago, without 
worrying overmuch about the effects on Harry.  Instead, he confesses 
that he chose to protect Harry against his better judgement.  (And of 
course, the protection completely backfires, killing Sirius and 
further traumatizing Harry.)  I can't understand it.  It all could 
have been avoided so easily...