Looks aren't everything! (was:Re: Sirius / Severus)

[jwcpgh]

No: HPFGUIDX 86561

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "greatlit2003" <hieya at h...> 
wrote:
> Looks aren't everything, it's true. But a good-looking person is 
> often given a certain amount of respect from the very beginning. 
We don't know what happened in MWPP's first year, but I'm guessing 
that kids just were drawn to Sirius because he was handsome and 
cool. 

Laura:

How many 11 year olds do you know whom you would describe as either 
handsome or cool?  :-)  These are young kids at this point.  I think 
kids of that age are very aware of when something is physically out 
of the norm but they have no real way to appreciate great beauty.  
That's a little trip we take starting in adolescence (a stage I miss 
not at all!).   

I would agree that Sirius probably had a lot of self-assurance due 
to his upbringing.  But he had to prove himself like everyone else 
in the school.  A highborn pureblood who was an abject screwup at 
mastering magical skills wouldn't impress anyone for long.  

greatlit:
I'm also pretty sure that kids avoided Severus from the beginning. 

Laura:
Or he avoided them.  Or both.  We don't know much about what went on 
in Slytherin House during those years.  We can surmise, though, that 
Severus didn't learn charm and polished social skills at home, the 
way Sirius most likely did.  So Severus would have been at a social 
disadvantage right away.
<snip> 

greatlit: 
> Do looks really reflect what is inside? Some people are brilliant 
in certain aspects of their lives, while they don't have a clue 
about other aspects. <snip>

Laura:

No, of course not.  I was referring to these particular cases.  On 
the other hand, there aren't too many ugly heroes in the literary 
world.  Maybe it's a convention authors adopt without being aware of 
it.  
> 
Laura:
> > It's easy enough to see how and why Snape ended up with the 
> > personality he has.  But Sirius is a more complex question.  How 
> did he come to reject his family values at such a young age?  
<snip>

greatlit:
Sirius is an interesting person, you're right. But he is likeable 
because he is such a good friend to the Potters. <snip> I don't 
think that Sirius shook off everything that his family taught him 
when he ran away. Even as an adult, he has arrogance, pride, a 
strong, rebellious personality. As a teenager, he thought it would 
be funny to have a fellow student eaten by a werewolf. He had to get 
all of these traits from somewhere (maybe his mother?) I think 
Sirius just rejected the whole notion of pure-blood superiority 
because he didn't want his parents to control who he became friends 
with. But he retained many other Black family qualities.
> 
>Laura:

We'll have to agree to disagree on Sirius, I guess, and on what 
really happened during the Prank.  Actually I'm not a Snape hater-
he's much too intriguing to hate.  But I figured I had to curtail my 
last post at some point.  :-)

I agree with you that part of Sirius's reaction to his parents as an 
adolescent was his desire to choose his own friends.  But that begs 
the question, why wasn't he in Slytherin in the first place, like 
all the rest of the Blacks?  Something had to be in him that 
differentiated him at his core.  Yeah, he had pride and arrogance as 
a teenager (and Snape didn't?), but where would a Black learn 
rebelliousness?  That's a family with absolutely nothing to rebel 
against-they have it all.  

Laura, from the original post
<snip> >And it wasn't his looks that made the other Marauders 
befriend and trust him.  It was his behavior-his whole-hearted 
adoption of the values of Hogwarts (the Hogwarts of DD, of course) 
and of Gryffindor.  
> 
greatlit:
> I don't think that Sirius adopted all of the values of DD. If he 
> had, he wouldn't have called Snape "Snivellus" in the kitchen of 
#12 Grimmauld Place. <snip> I'm not sure there is such a thing as 
the "whole-hearted adoption of the values of Hogwarts". 

Laura:
Here I meant the rejection of the importance of blood, the 
acceptance of persons on the basis of their individual worth, the 
rejection of the dark arts, that stuff.  There was a thread a while 
back suggesting that DD chose to stay at Hogwarts rather than become 
Minister of Magic because he wanted to influence the youth of the WW 
to his way of thinking about the major issues that faced them.  That 
doesn't mean they'd all be little DD clones, but that they'd adopt 
his priorities and his world view.  Sirius had every reason not to 
do that, given his upbringing, but he did.  I think Snape, in his 
own lovable way, has done the same thing.  I think he's a good guy-
it just took him a little longer to get there.