[HPforGrownups] Overturning the prophecy (was Re: Choices)?

[Derek Hiemforth]

No: HPFGUIDX 86669


>Derek:
>> the prophecy says that "either must
>> die at the hand of the other."  If a Dementor killed LV, then he
>> wouldn't have died at Harry's hand.
>
>madeyesgal:
>Suppose the prophecy isn't correct. Free will always plays into 
>future events, especially when the outcome is supposed to be known.

Derek:
That is of course a possibility.  But of course, if the prophecy
isn't correct, then nearly anything could happen.  :)

DD says that Trelawney's prophecy in PoA is "her second *correct*
prophecy" (added emphasis mine).  So DD, at least, believes the
prophecy under discussion (her first one) to be correct.  However,
that's not to say that the prophecy really means what it seems to.
Although I offered one literal fulfillment (Harry slaying LV with
Gryffindor's sword), there are many other, less literal ones.

>madeyesgal:
>It's entirely possible that Neville is the prophesied Voldemort
>destroyer. Maybe he's killed during the fight and Harry actually defeats
>Voldemort in the manner I suggested earlier. 

Derek:
Now this is interesting!  Specifically, that Neville could be the
one that dies.  I agree with DD that Neville isn't likely to be the
one who vanquishes LV.  That would be a mighty big left turn after
Harry has been the hero for seven books, and I think many readers
would feel victimized by a bait-and-switch if Harry isn't the one
who ultimately brings about the Dark Lord's defeat.

However, if you read the prophecy carefully, it just says that a
boy "with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord" approached and that
neither of them could live while the other survived.  Note that it
doesn't actually say that this boy *does* vanquish the Dark Lord!

So what if Neville *is* the boy mentioned in the prophecy?  Neville
could have the power to vanquish LV (but be unable to use it) and LV
could kill him.  At this point, the prophecy would be fulfilled.  But
that doesn't mean that Harry can't proceed to still defeat LV.  The
prophecy never says that *only* the boy it speaks of has the power to
defeat LV...

The main flaw in this interpretation is that the Dark Lord is
supposed to "mark him as an equal."  If he's going to do that to
Neville, it doesn't look like he's done it yet.

>madeyesgal:
>And...Harry could kill LV with Gryffindor's sword. Your ending is as 
>good an any other.

My (melo)dramatic sword-wielding idea isn't really likely, I admit.
It seems too violent a way to wrap up the series -- out of character
for JKR.  :)

What I truly suspect will happen is that the prophecy will prove to
be true.  However, it will turn out not to have meant the obvious
(that Harry would kill LV, LV would kill Harry, or both would kill
each other).  The real end result will be something else that doesn't
require one slaying the other, yet still somehow fulfills the prophecy.

>Madeyesgal (convinced that Snape will turn out to be a hero)

Derek:  I agree.  I'm 99 and 44/100ths percent sure that Snape is
worthy of DD's trust and that he's firmly a good guy.  (Albeit not
a *nice* guy.  ;)

- Derek