Stereotyping

[arrowsmithbt]

No: HPFGUIDX 86706

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "susanmcgee48176" <Schlobin at a...> 
wrote:
> > 
> > As an aside, I  like his dwarves - staunch, brave, outspoken, 
> violent,
> > just like a good prop-forward, but his elves make me cringe. Such
> > compassion and goodness needs to be severely punished IMO. 
> 
> 
> Okay, so masculine stereotypes are cool, but feminine stereotypes are 
> verboten? Is that what you're saying?
>

Kneasy:
Ah! I  thought this thread had faded - thank you Susan, for allowing me
an opportunity to resurrect my 'old curmudgeon' persona.

Just get the small intro out of the way and then onto the meat.
Elves, now. Are  they  a feminine sterotype in LotR?
Don't think so.
What they are is  a  'perfection' sterotype, a complete turn-around from
the traditional view of elves (considered to be the cause of birth defects
in humans and diseases of  cattle). JRRT endows them with  most of the
attributes that humanity aspires to. Is that a feminine sterotype? If so
I fear that  many  of my previous social encounters were with some
heavily disguised malefic aliens. 

Susan: 
> And it's obvious that Hermione, the character who JKR identifies with 
> most closely is on a path to free those slaves. OoP is pretty clear 
> about that.


Kneasy:
Not to me. I think Hermione is being set up to be wrong but in the
'right' way, if you get my meaning. So that  her friends can say "She
meant well but didn't understand the true  situation" That  way JKR 
covers both pitfalls -  being seen to appear to condone slavery and 
avoiding trite and out-dated social messages. Who doesn't condemn 
slavery? Anyone in the civilised world? 
No, it's an issue ruled as unacceptable long since, but it could be used as 
misdirection in a plot twist. Nothing is so much fun as using a reader 
knee-jerk reaction as a red herring. JKR is a fan of 'who-dunnits'; 
misdirection should be expected. 

Susan: 
> Oh no, you're not a freak. Lots of us refuse to be told what to 
> think....for example, as a radical feminist, I don't object to Molly 
> at all..in fact I love her and Arthur....great relationship, great 
> nurturing, great family, lots of warm, fuzzy, wonderful stuff..
> I've been a stay at home mom myself for a while, due to employment 
> problems, debilitating illness of partner, major illness of partner's 
> mother, and my own mother's death...and it's incredibly hard work.

Kneasy:
Yeah, I know. I had 5 years of it myself, though not as mom, but as a
carer for an invalid.

Susan: 
> Molly's terrific. Real live feminists, you know the ones that are not 
> vilified and barbecued and lied about by the media, are very 
> supportive of women who work inside the home. Remember, we're the 
> ones who coined the phrase "work outside the home" to be respectful 
> of mothers and household managers....
> 
> Anyway...my objection to JKR's portrayal of women was that up unti 
> the OoP all the women were defined by their relationships to 
> men..with one exception..Hermione..and one might argue......
>

Kneasy:
Well, we can agree about Molly at least.
It is worth pointing out, though, that the tale is told from the viewpoint
of an adolescent *boy*. Gender politics and female role models are likely
to interest him about as much as saving for a pension fund.

And what female role models were introduced in OoP?
Bella who is an out and out nutter who needs to be put down asap,
Luna, a re-incarnation of 60s hippiedom and who has bats in the belfry,
Dolores, a sadistic control freak,
Tonks, probably the next victim (that clumsiness will be the death of her),
Mrs Black, a true blood fascist.

The Womens Movement must have moved on since the last time I looked. 
Sounds much more interesting than it used to be.

No, my objection was the expectation that  writers should write to a
menu, a set of characters to suit fashionable political causes. To my mind
authors who actively promote such ideas are heading for trouble -  there's
no faster way  to become old-hat, boring and dated. All authors try to get 
across messages of what they consider to be unacceptable views, but IMO
it's better if they sketch with a light brush -  even within a 'cause'  there are
splits and schisms and differences of emphasis. If a writer's not careful you
could find that they become labelled as 'political' and in a short time their 
only supporters are members of a small collective living on nuts and berries
just outside Paris. 

Interestingly enough, I suspect  that the most fascinating and engaging 
literary inventions tend to be those that do not toe the party line.
Snape, for example. I can just imagine his lip curl if you suggested that
he needed a 'strong' female understudy.

Sterotyping goes much further that just the sexual variety, of course.
Many  posters have taken a stereotypical view of how the books should
end. These views vary according to taste. I've railed often over the past few 
weeks against the rosy-spectacled tendency -  those that want (believe) 
that all will end in sweetness and light; no nasty events; no ambiguity of 
motives or morals and particularly no crunch point where Harry eventually 
slaughters the Voldy!Monster.

Can't see  it myself. They've forgotten something - JKR is a killer.
If she can kill innocents like Cedric and Frank Bryce (for no obvious plot 
necessity), why not a few more? Why not a lot more?

I  make no bones about the fact that  my stereotype is at the other end of
the spectrum -  the more gore the better. Retribution pays for past sins.
Accounts should be balanced. Vengence is sweet (and cathartic).
Some fear that Harry will be 'tainted'. Have they forgotten that he already
is? He is part Voldy. Some (how many I wonder?) of Voldy's attributes were
transferred to him at Godrics Hollow. "He transferred some of his powers
to you," says  DD. Pity he didn't specify which ones. But the nastier they
are, the happier I  shall be.

We know about the Parceltongue.  I suspect that his recourse to Crucio!
could hint at another. (Why Crucio!? Why not Imperio! Choosing the 
infliction of pain over an attempt  at control is suggestive IMO. ) 

Susan:
> I think JKR must have read my earlier posts, because she sure as hell 
> as broken out of THAT mold in OoP...now if everyone was not overtly 
> heterosexual....sigh....
> 

Kneasy:
You're at it again!
Mind  you, it should be possible to lift it out of the mundane.
How about a psychotic gay murderer who hates women because one of
them stole his only true love? Peter, for example?
I  could go along with that.

> Susan:  
> P.S. Happy to send you a few beers..what's your favorite?
> 

Kneasy:
Just send money. US beers don't appeal much.
Don't suppose you've heard of Timothy  White's bitter, have you?