Stereotyping

[jwcpgh]

No: HPFGUIDX 86714

<a bunch of snips> 
> Susan: 
> > Molly's terrific. Real live feminists, you know the ones that 
are not vilified and barbecued and lied about by the media, are very 
supportive of women who work inside the home. Remember, we're the 
ones who coined the phrase "work outside the home" to be respectful 
of mothers and household managers....
> > 
> > Anyway...my objection to JKR's portrayal of women was that up 
until the OoP all the women were defined by their relationships to 
> > men..with one exception..Hermione..and one might argue......
> >
> 
> Kneasy:
> Well, we can agree about Molly at least.
><snip> 
> And what female role models were introduced in OoP?
> Bella who is an out and out nutter who needs to be put down asap,
> Luna, a re-incarnation of 60s hippiedom and who has bats in the 
belfry,
> Dolores, a sadistic control freak,
> Tonks, probably the next victim (that clumsiness will be the death 
of her),
> Mrs Black, a true blood fascist.
> 
> The Womens Movement must have moved on since the last time I 
looked. Sounds much more interesting than it used to be.

Laura:

Kneasy, dear, you seem to have misread Susan's post.  She didn't say 
the female characters in OoP were role models; she just said they 
weren't defined by their relations with men.  

I might argue with her portrayal of the HP females though.  If you 
value the role of an at-home parent, then to say that that role is 
defined by its relation to a male partner is inconsistent.  It has 
value in and of itself.  And you  can be an at home parent if you're 
a man or part of a same-sex couple too. Once staying at home with 
kids (or others in need of care) becomes a choice rather than a 
compulsion, it's no longer a dependent situation but one of mutual 
agreement.  So a feminist view of the Weasleys could be that Molly 
isn't dependent on Arthur-she and he have agreed that her staying 
home is a worthwhile investment of her time and her potential 
earning capacity. 

Besides, there are lots of working women in the earlier books whose 
roles weren't defined by their relations to men, unless you see 
having a male boss as being so defined (like McGonagall).

Kneasy:
<snip> 
> Interestingly enough, I suspect  that the most fascinating and 
engaging literary inventions tend to be those that do not toe the 
party line. Snape, for example. I can just imagine his lip curl if 
you suggested that he needed a 'strong' female understudy.

Laura:

Quite right.  Real humans aren't walking political platforms (the 
ones that are tend to be pretty lonely and with good reason).  
Writers with political points to make do it most successfully when 
the politics are woven into the plot, it seems to me. Austen, 
Thackeray, Dickens, Eliot come to mind from the 18th and 19th 
centuries, maybe Nadine Gordimer, Margaret Atwood from our times.


Kneasy:
> Some fear that Harry will be 'tainted'. Have they forgotten that 
he already is? He is part Voldy. <snip> We know about the 
Parceltongue.  I suspect that his recourse to Crucio! could hint at 
another. (Why Crucio!? Why not Imperio! Choosing the infliction of 
pain over an attempt at control is suggestive IMO. ) 

Laura:
I think you might be reading too much into Harry's attempted use of 
Crucio.  The decision to control is a more subtle choice-you have to 
have an end in mind when you choose that spell.  Why would Harry 
want to control Bella?  He just wants to hurt her as much as he 
possibly can.  

Although your point stands in that Harry's decision to use any 
Unforgivable at all could be indicative.  No other kid at the MoM 
that night tried anything so drastic as far as we know.
> 
> Susan:
now if everyone was not overtly heterosexual....sigh....

> Kneasy:
> You're at it again!
> Mind  you, it should be possible to lift it out of the mundane.
> How about a psychotic gay murderer who hates women because one of
> them stole his only true love? Peter, for example? I  could go 
along with that.

Laura:
Aha-the repressed shipper in Kneasy comes out!  Go for it, Kneasy!  
Let's see now, who could that true love be?  Of course-it would have 
to be James, and Lily grabbed him, which is why Peter was so eager 
to betray J&L to Voldie.  Oh boy-when Snape finds out who was 
sabotaging the LOLLIPOPS factory, Wormtail is toast...Kneasy, you've 
made my day!