[HPforGrownups] Evil Is As Evil Does

[Beth]

No: HPFGUIDX 51639

Eloise:
>Where House Slytherin is concerned, I am hoping that JKR has some surprises
>up her sleeve. It does seem to me that there is at present a mismatch between
>a superficial Good/Evil dualism in which the reader is told who to root for
>and JKR's concern to show that the latter are far from being saints. This, I
>think is the reason why some people criticise the books for not giving a
>clear enough depiction of Good vs Evil. JKR knows that the world is more
>complicated than that, that people are more complicated than that. I hope to
>see some characters from whom we would expect the worse facing choices and
>making the right decisions.

I do, too, and I hope Draco is one of them. Mind you, I think he's going to 
get a lot worse before he tries to make that right decision, and I think 
that trying to finally make a choice between easy and right (instead of 
automatically using the easy answers he's using now) is what will kill him.

Eloise again:
>Where Draco is going, I really don't know. If he were a real person, I
>wouldn't call him Evil as (apart from my own scruples) it seems to me that
>given his upbringing and certain arguable inadequacies of the education he
>receives at Hogwarts he hasn't really been given a *real* chance to choose
>yet. But as a character, at present he seems firmly on the side of Evil.

Agreed. And I think that he'll stay on that path for a while yet. I think 
he'll continue to stay loyal to his family and his house and his head of 
house as he sees them, partly because he's looking for approval (from his 
father, mostly), partly because he's getting approval (from his friends and 
his head of house), and partly because he IS ambitious and he's still being 
taught that what he's doing is the right way to get ahead.

CantorAmy
 >Choosing between the two impulses is a universal theme.  However,
until we leave home, we are most influenced by our families.  The
world that Draco knows is one of elitism.  He has probably been told
all of his life how special he is because of his bloodline, and that
this makes him superior.  My question is, does this get re-enforced
in Slytherin?  Are all Slytherins "pure bloods?"  They've been at
Hogwarts for 4 years, and so far nobody from Slytherin has overtly
established himself/herself as encouraging tolerance.<

It would seem to me that a house that uses "pureblood" as a password is 
more than likely all pureblood. Or at least a lot more supportive of its 
pureblood members than it is of any who are of mixed blood. Yes, I think 
that Draco's elitism is definitely reinforced by Slytherin.

Pippin:
 >I think what is evil about Draco is precisely this: he's old enough
to know that it's evil to let a maniac take over, he's old enough to
know it's evil to take a human life, and he seems to be okay with
Voldemort.   <snip> He's also okay with his own cruelty. It is no less 
cruel because it
is childish. We adults sometimes forget how wounding a child's
words can be to those who have not yet learned how to insulate
themselves from their effects.<

Absolutely. No argument that Draco is cruel, thoughtless, malicious, 
cunning, prejudiced, and downright mean with an overwhelming desire to get 
his own way and no pangs of conscience showing yet about doing anything he 
has to to get there. Draco's upbringing and surroundings are reasons for 
his behavior -- not excuses.

<snip>
 >The Slytherins themselves  no longer uniformly echo  Draco.
Harry sees that not all of them are willing to follow Draco's lead.
The split which was between Harry and Draco is now between
Draco's party and the other Slytherins, freeing Harry to relate to
Draco as an individual instead of a symbol of Slytherin evil.

Yes. And as Draco becomes more of an individual in Harry's eyes, I think 
we'll see him become more of an individual (separate from being a Malfoy 
and a Slytherin) in his own eyes as well. And as Draco's easy choices start 
shaping his own identity and reflecting who HE is rather than simply 
reflecting where he comes from, I think we may start to see some 
uncertainty about whether those  easy choices are the ones he really wants 
to make. Or not. We may not see any uncertainty at all until Draco is faced 
with the ultimate decision of life or death for another human -- and I 
think that's where Voldemort will lose him. And where we'll lose him, too.

Jenny from Ravenclaw:
 >Draco has been raised to believe that he is
superior to others and that "getting rid" of certain peoples isn't a
bad thing.  In fact, the Malfoys believe that they'd be much better
off without Muggles or mudbloods around.  If Draco believes that
Hermione is a lowly wormy mudblood, how can he even begin to consider
her feelings?  He behaves as he was taught.<

Yes. Draco, certainly at age 11, and probably for a year or more after 
that, faithfully mirrors what he has been firmly and forcefully taught, as 
a Malfoy heir and Slytherin legacy. His family and their friends have 
shaped who and what he is when he arrives at Hogwarts. Who of us can't say 
the same? (OK, except for the arriving at Hogwarts part, darn it. <grin>) 
Some of us allow ourselves to  be molded by our families, other rebel 
against that molding process, but in either case, our young selves are 
unavoidably shaped by the adults in our lives. It takes years to break out 
of that mold. I'm still trying some days. <grin>

Errol:
 >So, on that journey from an unintentional bad deed, to evil
personified, where does Draco lie? He's pretty well advanced,
I'd say, for a 14 year old. But he has a long, long way to go
before he is evil personified. Draco repeatedly does `Bad' deeds. And
he does them with intent. The degree of intent or the potency of the
malice can be argued. He has grown up in an atmosphere where evil has
free reign. He does not even question it. If he thought out his
attitude to muggle-borns and judged them in his own mind and still
called Hermione a `mudblood', his degree of evil is greater
than if he just accepted it as norm and let his father do all his thinking
for him. But evil it still is. <

I hesitate to call it "evil" still at his age; I'm inclined more toward 
"bad" and "nasty". But that's just personal semantics. I agree with your 
point wholeheartedly. Draco is simply, thoroughly, bad news.

<snip>
 >True, as a child you tend to blindly follow your family beliefs on
most counts. But by the time you enter your teens, you're
starting to think for yourself and rebelling (even against minor,
oblique points <g>) against parental values. Draco should have
started this process. And in a wizarding society where potential war
looms, and the citizenry are still getting over the previous conflict
of good and evil, and the evidence of the misery caused by evil
abound, I should think the dilemma would force itself on you. And it
is not as if Draco lives at home to be brainwashed by his father.<

No, Draco lives in Slytherin, where his father's values and prejudices are, 
at least for the most part, supported. (I do think we're seeing a bit of a 
separation between Draco and the rest of Slytherin in book 4, but I don't 
think it's been enough yet to make him examine his methods. They've been 
fairly successful so far.) The misery caused by evil could be seen to have 
mostly hit muggles, muggle-borns, mixed bloods, and "lower classes" so far. 
Why care? If you even notice. The misery and inconvenience suffered by the 
Malfoys and their friends were caused by those same people, not by "evil". 
Yet another reason to get rid of them all.

<snip>
 >Pippin alludes to the series throwing off their fairy-tale ethic by
the end of GoF. The moral dilemmas have become internalized, showing
a growing maturity. If Draco were to have the same level of maturity,
then would his words on the train justify the reactions? If Draco
were pondering good and evil within himself, and then came out with
those words, would people find them more offensive? All those who
consider the hexing as over-reaction consider Draco's maturity to
be far less than the Trio's -- something that is not supported,
(nor for that matter refuted), by canon. <

I could be wrong here (I haven't specifically combed canon for support -- I 
just don't have RL time right now, darn it), but I do believe that Draco's 
maturity level is lower than the trio's. I think his typical reactions to 
situations haven't changed much in four books, and they would if he were 
"growing up". I don't see it yet.

One thing to consider here is not just age, but experience. Draco's been 
going to school and spending the summers and some holidays at home with his 
family. He's failed at a lot of things, gotten grief about his grades, been 
hexed a few times. Events that MIGHT cause him to actually stop and think, 
to consider his actions and their consequences? AmazingBouncingFerret!Draco 
and the Train Step. Life-changing events for the trio? Almost too many to 
count. Most notably, the PS/SS finale, the basilisk and Chamber of Secrets, 
being hunted by a convicted murderer, facing a werewolf, working through 
the Tri-Wizard Tournament, dealing with conflicts amongst themselves. 
They've been forced through a LOT of growing up in the first four books. 
Draco hasn't.

I still think that as Voldemort gets stronger, Draco's life will shift so 
that he'll have harder choices to make -- and that's when we'll see whether 
he continues to go with the "easy" choices and the choices he's been taught 
are right and effective, or will learn to make the real "right" choices. If 
he does learn, no bets on how long he lasts.

Elkins:
 >I don't know if I'd even consider a plotline in which a teenager
mends his wicked ways by distancing himself from his history of
schoolyard bullying, racism, vile political rhetoric, and nasty
verbal taunts a "redemption subplot" at all.  To my mind, that would
be more a coming of age drama serving to parallel and to double
Harry's own.  For it to be a *redemption plotline,* I'd expect to see
the character first do something seriously dire.  Murder, torture,
betrayal...even accepting the Dark Mark would suffice.  But nasty
words, schoolyard bullying, and lip service to a vile political
agenda?  <

I do think that we'll see a coming-of-age parallel between Harry and Draco. 
The main difference (besides starting out on opposite sides of the fence) 
is that Harry is already partway there, and Draco is just beginning. I 
think that Harry's headstart, in both ways, is what will keep him alive.

I do think that Draco is doing a lot of evil deeds, or at least 
tremendously bad and nasty. I think it'll get much worse. I do see him 
trying to follow in his father's footsteps, trying to prove to his father 
that he IS worthy of being a Malfoy. And I see him failing one last time.

The problem as I see it with Draco is not that he's making all the wrong 
choices. It's that he's not really making any choices at all. Draco is 
sliding through life, being just what he thinks he should be, letting those 
easy choices pretty much make themselves. He's been told those are the 
right choices, the way to get ahead, the way to make sure that you stay on 
top, the way to let everyone else know that you're special. What's to 
choose? Why should he choose to support the trio when they've been nothing 
but nasty right back to him? (It's so easy to ignore that you yourself 
started it. <grin> Besides, they started it, right? Harry refused Draco's 
friendship and sided instead with one of those impoverished Weasleys. One 
who laughed at his name, no less.) They deserve everything they get.

But someday the "proper" choice for a Malfoy will be shown in all its 
horror -- submitting to Voldemort, torturing and killing people you know, 
constant fear. And that's when I think Draco will break free of the dictum 
to not ask questions and follow the accepted pattern. That's when I think 
he'll see that there ARE choices, and that the choice that makes you a 
Malfoy isn't always going to be the choice that he wants to make. THEN 
there'll be a potential redemption scenario. But it will be too late. I 
think Draco will die in a state of indecision, finally denying the easy 
choice, but without the strength to make the right choice, either. A 
failure again, to both sides.

Do I pity Draco? Not yet. But I think I will.

bel