MD Alternative: Lupin is the agent. (WAS Objections to Magic Dishwasher - Shriek

[annemehr <annemehr@yahoo.com>]

No: HPFGUIDX 51841

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Tom Wall <thomasmwall at y...>" 
<thomasmwall at y...> wrote:
<snip>
> So, this is my humble attempt to posit an alternative 
> to Agent!Snape as presented in MD thus far.
> 
> From what I can gather, all of MD here hinges on 
> whether or not Dumbledore sent not Snape, 
> but "an agent" into the Shrieking Shack as a means 
> of helping/protecting Harry and creating a life-debt 
> with Peter... all that, in order to engineer a 
> flawed potion for Voldemort's revival. Right? Well, 
> if that's a little brief, I apologize, but I'm eager 
> to move on. 
> 
<snip> 
> So, I guess I'm asking, why necessarily Snape? 
> 
> Couldn't it just as easily be Lupin? 

<snip>
> 
 
> One more thing. Someone (can't remember who, just now, nor can I 
find 
> the post - sorry about that) has suggested previously that 
Dumbledore 
> might have hired Lupin expressly because he knew that Sirius Black 
> had escaped from Azkaban, and that there were indications that he 
was 
> going to come to Hogwarts. And that as an old friend, Lupin might be 
> the best person to reason with him. Or else, Dumbledore would have 
> all three of the possible traitors under his nose.
> 
> Read it however you like...

That may have been me.  I did post these ideas in #49095 (a TBAY post 
where I explained myself as sitting on the fences between three 
theories: a straightforward reading, where all is as it seems, an 
Evil!Snape reading, and MD).  I was actually contemplating emailing 
you offlist with this post number just to muddy the waters in your 
mind! ;)

> 
> For the purposes of this post, however, I'm going to 
> posit that, instead of Snape, Lupin is the agent in
> the Shrieking Shack.

Great! A fourth fence for me to sit on! =P

> 
> 
> First of all, from my perspective of Dumbledore's perspective 
<grin>, 
> it seems far more likely to me, to be sure, that
> 
> a) Dumbledore would send someone the kids trust, and
> b) Dumbledore would send someone who was reasonable and not *openly* 
> bent on a revenge that could foul everything up, and
> c) Dumbledore would send someone that Sirius Black would listen to, 
> so that
> d) That person will be able to manage everything calmly, get the 
> answers out of both Black and Pettigrew, and without saying anything 
> obvious, get Harry to grant the life-debt, and finally
> e) Dumbledore would send someone who could make it look most 
> plausibly like an accident that Pettigrew escaped.

So is it your premise that Dumbledore and Lupin knew about Pettigrew 
all along?  Because in my view it is more likely that they always 
thought that Sirius *was* the traitor, and thus, in this theory, they 
would have formulated the "life debt" plan for Sirius.  Then, Lupin 
was genuinely shocked to see Pettigrew appear on the map.  I also read 
Lupin's and Sirius' reconciliation scene in the Shack as genuine.  
This leads me to a big problem, here.  If Lupin thought that Sirius 
was the traitor, he would have had to be absolutely willing to kill 
him in order for Harry to truly save his life. 
> 
> Okay. Instead of using the "premise" approach that Pip did, I'm 
going 
> to just do a reading of the scene, inserting my reasoning where I 
see 
> fit. Most of the premises are the same, anyways, with the minor 
point 
> of substituting Lupin for Snape. 
> 
> Righto. Onward!
> 
> It starts with this: Lupin has the kids' trust already, and Lupin 
(in 
> this scene) is always, always, ALWAYS the voice of reason. 
> 
> Let's begin:
> 
> 
> Lupin enters, removes the kids' wands, and uses his immediate 
> credibility with both Black and the kids to get the information he 
> wants from Black, namely, is Black really guilty? 
> 
> Remember, via the map, he already knows that Pettigrew is in the 
> room. But he wants to know what Black's doing here.

Yes. He has to readjust the plan a bit.

<snip a whole bunch of very compelling reasoning...>
 
> Okay. Few bits here, totally out of the "How to defend MD handbook:" 
> <grins - Just kidding, guys!>
> 
> 
> 1) Lupin says Dumbledore "never knew," not that he "doesn't know."
> 
> 2) Lupin says "...wondering whether I should tell Dumbledore," not 
"I 
> haven't" told Dumbeldore.
> 
> 3) Lupin says "...whether I should tell Dumbledore that Sirius was 
an 
> Animagus," not that "Pettigrew, James, AND Sirius are animagi." 


All of this applies if Dumbledore and Lupin know that Pettigrew was 
the secret-keeper and has been hiding out as a rat.  If they thought 
that Sirius was the traitor, all Lupin's angst about revealing animagi 
could have just been true all along.


<snip all the rest of very compelling arguments>

You know, I like this, mostly.  The only part that bugs me is wanting 
to read Lupin as genuinely surprised that Pettigrew is alive and 
Sirius was innocent.  Can we get around this somehow?

I think you must be right.  In this theory (could we call it Lupin!MD 
as it is basically MD with Lupin as the agent?), Lupin must need to 
know that Pettigrew was the traitor, so that they know that Sirius 
would want to kill him, thus providing Harry with a genuine chance to 
save Pettigrew's life.  If Lupin thought Sirius was the traitor, then, 
as I said, Lupin would have had to be planning to kill Sirius if Harry 
had failed to step in, in order to create a true life debt.  In other 
words, if the traitor's life was never in danger, there would not have 
been any life debt.

If I could be satisfied on these points, I would then have FOUR 
Shrieking Shack theories to drive me crazy!

Annemehr