[HPforGrownups] Who told James about the Prank?

[Eileen]

No: HPFGUIDX 51920

 --- "Cindy C. <cindysphynx at comcast.net>"
<cindysphynx at comcast.net> wrote: 

> See, having Lily overhear the conversation between
> Sirius and Snape 
> really works. 

No, it wouldn't. Unless you think Sirius told Snape
that if he went under the Whomping Willow he'd meet a
vicious werewolf. Lily doesn't know about Lupin,
remember?

Unless you want know-it-all Hermione!Lily like in all
those MWPP fics. (Deliver us, o Lord!)

> Lily would have every motivation to
> run off and tell 
> James -- if the Prank works, James could be in
> trouble and get 
> expelled, and Lily wouldn't want that, see.  'Cause
> she was in *LUV* 
> and would do anything in the world to protect her
> beloved James. ;-)

I thought you said Eros couldn't bang. Especially not
sappy two wuv.

> And as others have said, Lily's saving Snape's life
> can create the 
> life debt we need for Snape to turn away from the
> DEs once he is 
> ordered to kill Lily.  See, we *really* need to have
> a reason for 
> Snape to do that, and life debt always works better
> for me because 
> it is so much less sappy than Snape's sickening,
> pathetic unrequited 
> crush on Lily that haunts him through early
> adulthood.

I had no doubt that was your motivation. You've been
taking potshots at poor George for a long time now. We
don't need a reason for Snape to turn away from the
DEs once he is ordered to kill Lily for the simple
reason that we don't know that he turned away from the
DEs once he was ordered to kill Lily.

But, even if you aren't a Georgian, why are you
duplicating your life-debts. Snape already has a
canonical life-debt to James. Where does a Lily
life-debt get you? It's ungainly and unelegant and
unnecesary, that's what it is. And, since it's so
redundant, it's remarkably unbangy as well.

Meanwhile, Peter gets you thematic consistency.

You know another reason why I think it was Peter and
not Lily?

Lupin was talking to Harry there. He emphasizes all
through "Lily and James" over and over again when
referring to their murders. He makes James sound
really heroic. And then he refuses to tell Harry how
well-behaved his mother was too? Why?

Now, Peter, on the other hand... Neither Sirius or
Lupin is going to say anything nice about Peter.

> See, I think there's a problem with Peter telling
> James about the 
> Prank.  Where in canon does Peter ever Do The Right
> Thing?  
>
> So let me ask, then.  What was in it for Peter?

Stopping someone from being killed. 

> But why would Peter do anything with the
> information?  Peter is a 
> SYCOPHANT who seems quite intimidated by Sirius. 
> SYCOPHANTs are 
> supposed to avoid trouble and conflict and taking a
> stand and 
> accepting risk, right?  

Yeah, SYOPHANTS just aren't that keen on having a
student die at their best friends' hands, and getting
into real big trouble and conflict etc. etc. 

We're not proposing Peter ran down the tunnel here.
We're proposing that he went to his bigger, better,
and more rational friend and squealed on his other
friend. Even if Peter were so hopeless a case in
school as Sirius reminisces in the Shrieking Shack
(which I don't think was the case, Sirius being a wee
bit biased), I don't see anything remarkably out of
character.


> Right, then.  Thematic consistency.  I know *plenty*
> about thematic 
> consistency.
> 
> There's lots of that there thematic consistency in
> the Lily-Told-
> James scenario.  What does Lily stand for,
> thematically speaking?  
> She stands for . . . uh . . . 
> 
> <thinks>
> 
> . . . protection!  Yeah, that's it!  Saving the life
> of young 
> Harry.  Standing between someone and certain death. 
> That's her, uh, 
> narrative function, too, in case you were wondering.
>  ;-)

And James's in relation to Snape, apparently. That's
not just thematic consistency. It's thematic
redundancy. 

And what part do you want for Peter in this whole
scenario? Are you saying that this reunion of the
participants in the original Prank: Sirius, Lupin,
Snape, James (represented by Harry's behaviour)
features Peter as extra. I don't see Lily represented
anywhere in this reprise. 

> See, if Peter were equally responsible for
> Snape's grudge 
> over the Prank, then Sirius would have behaved
> differently in the 
> Shack.  When Lupin starts to tell the tale of the
> Prank, Lupin twice 
> says that *Sirius* played the Prank, never
> mentioning Peter.  If 
> Peter had been in on it, Lupin would surely have
> said Peter and Sirius, as Lupin knew Peter was 
> right there.  

If you're concealing one aspect of a person's
behaviour, it's best to conceal the other related
aspect. Besides, I find myself wondering how much
Lupin ever found out about Sirius's plans and
motivations. Shines up her S.T.A.T.I.C.S.A.P. badge.
(Snape's Trick Attempted To Instruct Callous Snape
About Prejudgice). 

>Further, if Peter had saved Sirius' bacon lo those 
>many years ago, is there any doubt that Peter would
>have pointed this out in the Shack when Peter was
>casting about for some reason Sirius should spare 
>Peter's life?  I'm thinking we would have heard
>at least one "You owe me, Sirius!"

Give the rat a little credit, Cindy. That would have
been incredibly stupid to emphasize, especially in
Elkins' scenario which seems supremely in character. 

"Yeah, I was a backstabbing traitor even back then,
Sirius. Please spare me on that account. You see, I
saved your butt. Well, actually, James saved it, and
then I had him murdered, but anyway...You owe me,
Sirius!"

>Finally, it really *needs* to be Lily.  Lily doesn't
>have enough to do, and women in general don't have
>enough to do in the books.  So let's at least have 
>Lily rat out Sirius, shall we?

Oh yeah, that will fix that problem all right. Lily
goes running to her knight in shining armour to make
everything right.

>Unless she was in on the Prank all along.  ;-)

Yes, and she was out for blood. Evil!Lily, anyone?

Eileen

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