Marauder's Map / Weasley Finances / Charlie Weasley / Wizard University

[Catlady (Rita Prince Winston) <catlady@wicca.net>]

No: HPFGUIDX 51941

Tom Wall wrote:

<< So, why haven't Fred and George noticed, in two-and-a-half-years, 
that there's a guy named Peter Pettigrew following their little 
brother around? >>

Worse, if they had ever looked into the class of 1998 boys' dorm, 
they would have seen some bloke named Pettigrew *in bed with* their 
little brother. I gather that Fred and George were somewhat lacking 
curiosity, using the Map only to find the secret passages and very 
little to check if the coast was clear and not at all to spy on 
people, because when they gave it to Harry, they had memorized the 
secret passages, but it would still have been useful to them for 
checking where people were. Due to this lack of curiosity, they never 
looked in Gryffindor House's dorm rooms nor common room, nor in any 
of the class rooms during class time, nor at the dining tables during 
meal times. Because they already knew, without having to check on the 
Map, that there were people in those places: the coast was not clear. 
Some listies have argued that if they ever did see Ron while looking 
at a place (e.g. the entrance to the kitchens) to make sure that 
Filch was not lurking there to catch them, they would have seen the 
name "Peter Pettigrew" with Ron but assumed it was just some 
Hufflepuff he'd happened to run into. 

<< Fifth, Lupin says that he *knows* that Filch confiscated the map 
"many years ago" (7), so I'm eager to find out: 
a) How Filch might have found out about the map, and:
b) Why Dumbledore doesn't appear to know about it (15), and:
c) If Filch got it while the Marauders were still students, or:
d) If perhaps they handed the map down to others and that it was 
eventually confiscated from them, and:
e) (canon not quoted here) WHY Filch would have considered the map to 
be 'highly dangerous?' >>

I've been assuming that Filch confiscated it from one or more of the 
Marauders (who didn't call themselves "Marauders" blablabla, but 
surely did call themselves *something* and Marauders is as suitable 
as anything else). He caught known trouble-makers, students who made 
his life a misery to him, with a suspicious piece of parchment. They 
managed to turn it off in time that he didn't see it was a map (which 
is why he didn't tell Dumbledore) but he could tell it was something 
important to them by the way they reacted. So he confiscated it and 
marked it "Highly Dangerous" because of whom it came from.

Ing suggested that the Map insulted Filch as it did Snape, giving him 
more logical reason to mark it "Highly Dangerous". My only problem 
with that wise suggestion is that the Map didn't insult Snape until 
he pointed his wand at it, presumably to cast some spell to make it 
reveal its secret. So I imagine that the insults are activated by 
"reveal" spells. Filch is a Squib, he couldn't have cast any spell on 
it, so the insults must have been activated some other way.  

Ed wrote:

<< While Tom raises some good questions, isn't he not asking the 
trickiest one? And that is: When Lupin and/or Snape are looking at 
the map, wouldn't an accurate map show 2 Harry Potters and 2 Hermione 
Grangers because of the Time Turner? Or is the question: Because the 
map must show 2 each of these characters, why is that not commented 
upon by the adults looking at the map? >>

The Harries and Hermiones don't show on the Map when they are inside 
Hagrid's Hut, inside the Shrieking Shack, maybe some other places. I 
can't get my act together to make a time line of where everyone was 
at every time, but maybe the adults looked at the Map only at moments 
when ... one of the Harry and Hermione pairs was inside one of those 
buildings and thus not showing on the Map. Tom already explained that 
that works for Snape: the first Trio had gone into the Shrieking 
Shack by the time he saw the Map, so he thought the only students out 
there, in danger from werewolf!Lupin, were the second Harry and 
Hermione. Which leads to my next reply:

Mel TBAYed:

<< All he sees is a loose cannon werewolf running *outside* on full 
moon night. Who in their right *mind* would go after him? That is 
suicidal." >>

Snape has his wand and his magical training and his quick reflexes 
and is confident of his ability to use Stunning, Binding, or 
(hopefully) Killing Spells to control the wild werewolf. (I don't 
know if Avada Kedavra is Unforgiveable when used on a werewolf, but 
there are other killing spells.) So he's arrogant but not suicidal.

And he saw the second Harry and Hermione in the Forest near the 
Whomping Willow (with Harry wanting to grab the Invisibility Cloak 
and Hermione telling him not to change established history like that, 
in possible danger from the wild werewolf who was heading in their 
direction. So he felt he had to go rescue those idiot Gryffindor 
children once again.

Meg wrote:

<<"Ron is allowed to have Harry spend chunks of vacation at the 
Burrow. (snip) If there was no money, having an extra mouth to feed 
and entertain for weeks at a time would put an enormous strain on 
finances. >>

I disagree because I think the Weasleys grow their own food and 
plenty of it (we saw only the chickens in the front yard in canon, 
but I'm sure there are also vegetable gardens, and maybe a milk cow 
in back). They can use Engorgement Charms and other magic to stretch 
their food further. And they don't spend much money on entertainment, 
leaving it to the kids to entertain themselves.

<< Staying at the Leaky Cauldron is also superfluous. Given that it 
is possible to have either taken a taxi from the Burrow or Floo to 
the Leaky Cauldron and take a taxi from there, staying overnight  at 
the Leaky Cauldron is using money they just shouldn't have. Even if 
staying at the Leaky Cauldron was a necessity in PoA, they should 
have stayed in fewer rooms. >>

I think the Ministry of Magic not only provided the cars to King's 
Cross, but paid for the rooms at the Leaky Cauldron. Remember how 
pleased Fudge was that the run-away Harry was at the Leaky Cauldron, 
and told him he could visit Diagon Alley but not go back to the 
Muggles? Apparently the Ministry thought Harry was only in danger 
from escaped convict Sirius Black when in the Muggle space-time. The 
Ministry cars were not just a convenience, they were to PROTECT him 
on his little trip through Muggle space-time. The Burrow is in the 
same space-time as the Muggles, not the same space-time as Diagon 
Alley, so the Ministry would not have wanted Harry to stay at the 
Burrow. It would have been worth it to MoM to put all those Weasley 
rooms and meals on the MoM tab to keep Harry under watch. 

Ffred wrote:

<< We certainly know that research goes on - one of the elder 
Weaslies is doing research on dragons >>

Charlie Weasley. Ron said he's researching dragons in Rumania. 
Personally, I suspect he's *wrangling* dragons rather than 
*researching* them ---  bringing four nesting dragons to Hogwarts 
for the Triwizard Tournament would mess up any reasonable research 
plan those four specimens were involved in. And the 30 or so wizards 
working in unison to stun, levitate, and transport those dragons 
seemed well practised at their wrangling. Dragons seem to be almost 
a livestock, what with dragon's heartstring wands, dragonhide boots 
and gloves, dragon liver at seventeen Sickles the ounce, twelve uses 
of dragons' blood....

However, we DO know that research goes on, because things get 
discovered/invented. Dumbledore and Flamel discovered the twelve 
uses of dragons' blood and someone invented Wolfsbane Potion 'quite 
recently'.

By the way, you always have verses in Welsh in your sig, and it 
seems to me that they aren't always the same verse, so maybe can 
you translate "Tathal Twyll Golau" for me? In the Patrick Ford 
translation of Culhwh and Olwen, in the list of Arthur's men, I 
found "Tathal Twyll Golau whose treachery was patent" and that 
description sounds like an ancestor of the Malfoys.

Steve bboy_mn wrote:

<< "I have my masters called Magister and Magistra (of Artis 
Magia)..." Magistra of Artis Magia - Master of the Magic Arts???? 
You can actually get a degree in that from a Muggle university??? >>

Oops. I don't have any degrees at all. I meant, I have my characters 
who are Masters (of the Potions Guild, of the Healers' Guild, of 
Defense Against Dark Arts Guild, etc) addressed by other characters 
as Magister and Magistra.

However, Isaac Bonewitz *did* get a Bachelor of Arts in Magic degree 
from the University of California at Berkeley back in the 1960s. His 
diploma is reproduced on the back cover of his book REAL MAGIC. His 
type of magic, thaumaturgy, is more like Hogwarts than it's like 
prestidigitation. (Not that it's much like Hogwarts.)