Ginny, Hermione and being just a girl in the Potterverse( Was: Acting their age)

Tue Feb 18 00:08:46 UTC 2003

No: HPFGUIDX 52400

*de-lurking because this is one of my pet discussions*

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "serenadust <jmmears at c...>" 
<jmmears at c...> wrote:
> I think that to say that Ginny acts too young for her age uses 
> Hermione as the standard norm for how Ginny "should" be.  I would 
> suggest that it may be more correct to use Ginny for the norm in 
> JKR's world rather than Hermione, who after all was being written 
as 
> being "different" from the other kids. If you look at her this way, 
> JKR's characterization of Ginny is not off at all.

I'd agree with this, and add that just because we don't see Hermione 
behave in ways that are considered stereotypically 'young' that 
doesn't mean that she *never* behaves immaturely in canon.

In canon, we see Ginny cry on one occasion: at the end of CoS, after 
being soul-sucked by an evil psycho for a year and then kidnapped and 
nearly killed by him.

On the flip side, we see Hermione cry over lack of sleep, stress from 
studying too hard, fighting with Ron, making up with Ron, fighting 
with Harry, her cat, being told no one likes her, etc. 

All very understandable things for a pre-teen/early teen girl to cry 
over, IMO. And not necessarily indicative of weakness on the part of 
either character. Hermione *is* pretty immature in her own way, 
though. She's very stubborn and refuses to admit when she's wrong, 
which is, in my opinion, rather childish behavior. 

I don't mean this as an indictment of Hermione, just an illustration 
of my opinion that Hermione's flaws and occasional immaturity often 
get overlooked in these discussions because so many female fans 
identify so very heavily with her.

Hermione's kind of a bitch. Which I think is a *good* thing, it makes 
her a realistic character not necessarily an unlikable one. She's 
fourteen, and 14-year-old girls can be insensitive and selfish and 
bitchy. Maybe Ginny could use a touch of H's bitchitude, but that 
doesn't mean Hermione can't benefit from a little of Ginny's 
influence as well. 

One of the things I've found most problematic about HP fanon is this 
notion that there's only *one* way to be a smart, accomplished or 
worthy woman. And it's the Hermione!way. It's okay to be Hermione 
(and, because of that, to a certain extent it's okay to be Minerva 
McGonagall), but it isn't okay to be Ginny (because she's weak), or 
Cho (because she's popular and threatening), or Fleur (because she's 
shallow and vapid), or Parvati and Lavender (because they're silly), 
or Molly (because she's a stay-at-home mom and a busybody), or Sibyll 
Trewlaney (because she's New Age-y old fruit bat), or Rita Skeeter 
(because she's a bitch on wheels).

I have to wonder, when we find out more about Lily, if it will be 
okay to be like her.

The male characters certainly don't get put under this kind of 
microscope or criticized nearly so roundly, and I often wonder if it 
isn't because the fandom is made up primarily of women.

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Penny Linsenmayer 
<pennylin at s...> wrote:
> Pippin said:
> 
> <<<<I don't see that Ginny has to join the Trio on all their 
adventures 
> or, heaven forbid! supplant Hermione in the reader's affections, 
> in order for the reader to accept her as the right person for 
Harry.>>>>
> 
> I don't either.  But, you must admit, Ginny's page time has been 
*decreasing* > (or, without engaging in LOONy word counts, I presume 
that GoF is either 
> slightly less or about the same as her references/dialogue in PoA, 
on a 
> proportionate scale certainly).  There could be subtle development 
of her as 
> character, without building her up into a member of the Trio or 
making her 
> more important than Hermione.  There hasn't been though, IMO.  I 
agree with
> Judy who said we know far more about Bill and Charlie than we do 
about Ginny.  

Although, if we look at some of the symbolism in the books from a 
psychoanalytical point of view (and I'm not a Freudian, but I'm also 
not above invoking his interpretations when they support my point 
^_^), you could argue that Ginny is poised to be *very* important. 
Let's face it, the Chamber of Secrets is a Freudian's wet dream (pun 
intended). With the snakes and the pipes and the decay and slime, and 
the dark, wet underground chamber? Come *on*. Coupled with Ginny's 
superficial resemblance to Lily, it's very possible she could be 
important to Harry's sexual development. There's more to the text 
than adventures or dialogue or surface interaction. There's a whole 
lot of metaphor to be explored there, and just because a thirteen or 
fourteen year old Harry doesn't acknowledge it doesn't mean it isn't 
there.

Now, that's not saying I think it will necessarily happen in canon, 
or that if it does it will be hearts and flowers and babies and happy 
ever after, but it *is* why I as a fanfic author find it a more 
interesting dynamic to write. And also why I wouldn't discount it as 
unlikely or 'unobvious'.