[HPforGrownups] Austen and why parallels do not exist for R/H and/or H/G (FF link, no text)

[heiditandy]

No: HPFGUIDX 52406

Shauna posted a creative paralleling-argument regarding Pride &
Prejudice and the HP SHIPs and Lilac replied: 


> I've heard some people compare Darcy and Elizabeth to R/H 
> because of the tension and what R/H's call witty banter 
> (others call hurtful bickering) or D/H because of the pride 
> and prejudice of Darcy/Draco (although I personally don't see 
> D/H happening, imo, but I could be wrong...).
Then added... 

> But I like to believe that JKR is going to pull a "Darcy" 
> with R/H and a "Knightly" with H/G. 

As a P&P fan, I cannot see any similarities between Ron and Darcy - none
whatsoever. Furthermore, given that a major argument of many R/H
shippers is that they are *both* already interested in each other, I
would think that this argument would be utterly anihalated by a
comparison with Elizabeth & Darcy, given that she didn't find him at all
intriguing, from a romantic point of view, until she took in his grounds
at Pemberley, which would be, in a "parallel" much later in the
relationship than Hermione and Ron currently are in terms of friendship.

In terms of "witty banter", well, I simply refer everyone back to
Derranimer's posts, at least beginning with
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/50447, where she
explains quite clearly what witty banter is, and why the supermajority
of Hermione and Ron's interactions, to date, do not meet the definition
(but then again, I've always felt that Elizabeth and Darcy's
interactions through most of P&P are more a battle of wits than witty
banter, per se, but that's for an OTC thread). 

Does this really sound like it would be something that Hermione, as she
is in canon now, would ever say to Ron:

"From the very beginning, from the first moment I may almost say, of my
acquaintance with you, your manners, impressing me with the fullest
belief of your arrogance, your conceit, and your selfish disdain of the
feelings and safety of others, were such as to form that ground-work of
disapprobation, on which succeeding events have built so immoveable a
dislike; and I had not known you a month before I felt that you were the
last man in the world whom I could ever be prevailed on to spend
enjoyable time with, much less marry."

Nah, didn't think so. 

In terms of the "Knightly/Emma" comparison to Harry and Ginny, again, I
don't see it, for the specific reason that for much, nay ninety percent
of the story, neither Emma nor Mr Knightly seem to have much interest in
each other as other than familial-friends, whereas it's quite clear from
the HP books that Ginny's interests towards Harry have been quite
different from familial-friends. Now, it's possible that in subsequent
books, Harry and Ginny will develop and interact pursuant to a level of
familiarity that does not exist in canon at this point - but is
certainly not barred by canon to date. However, to say that it *will*
happen is, imho, wishful thinking (i.e. it might come true, but it has
no basis in any line or phrase of canon at all). 

Of course, one "note" off from the original source does not a
devestation of the comparison make - it's been two years this week since
I first was a proponent of the Darcy/Draco parallel, where the role of
Elizabeth would be played by Hermione - and of course, the parallel
isn't perfect. Hermione has options that Elizabeth never could have,
both in education and in terms of actually having a career other than
marriage, and it's implied that both Draco and Hermione are only
children, unlike Darcy and Elizabeth. 

But in terms of characterisation, Draco's is so much closer to Darcy's
than Ron is that it makes me feel that to compare any character other
than Draco to Darcy is simply superficial and looks in the opposite
direction from characterisation to... Hmmm. To something else, but I'm
not sure what. But I've been saying this for about two years now
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/23530, and I also
recommend reading the posts that come up when you click here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/messagesearch/38999?query=he
idi%20darcy - it's a quirky little loook into a fraction of the list's
history).

Now, I am not saying that Draco, where he is now in canon, is identical
to Darcy in P&P. For one thing, Draco, as we've met  him in canon, is
close to two decades younger Draco, with a living father who has the
ability to keep controls over his life - clearly Draco (or, to be
precise, Hermione or Draco) would have to go through a sea change before
finding the other to be intriguing on a romantic level. 

But that's exactly what happened in P&P, isn't it?

``There is, I believe, in every disposition a tendency to some 
particular evil, a natural defect, which not even the best education 
can overcome.''

``And your defect is a propensity to hate every body.''

``And yours,'' he replied with a smile, ``is wilfully to 
misunderstand them.''
--Pride & Prejudice, Chapter XI of Volume I 

And of course...
``I cannot give you credit for any philosophy of the kind. Your 
retrospections must be so totally void of reproach, that the 
contentment arising from them is not of philosophy, but, what is much 
better, of innocence. But with me, it is not so. Painful 
recollections will intrude which cannot, which ought not, to be 
repelled. I have been a selfish being all my life, in practice, 
though not in principle. As a child I was taught what was right, but 
I was not taught to correct my temper. I was given good principles, 
but left to follow them in pride and conceit. Unfortunately an only 
son (for many years an only child), I was spoilt by my parents, who, 
though good themselves (my father, particularly, all that was 
benevolent and amiable), allowed, encouraged, almost taught me to be 
selfish and overbearing; to care for none beyond my own family 
circle; to think meanly of all the rest of the world; to wish at 
least to think meanly of their sense and worth compared with my own. 
Such I was, from eight to eight and twenty; and such I might still 
have been but for you, dearest, loveliest Elizabeth! What do I not 
owe you! You taught me a lesson, hard indeed at first, but most 
advantageous. By you, I was properly humbled. I came to you without a 
doubt of my reception. You shewed me how insufficient were all my 
pretensions to please a woman worthy of being pleased.''
--Pride & Prejudice, Chapter XVI of Volume III 

In other words, there's three books left. There are at least 2 and a
half books in which Draco has the opportunity to face some demons, fight
some battles, and see for himself if he wants to capitulate and become a
wothless fingerpuppet of evil, or if he wants to, even for completely
selfish reasons, choose otherwise. And as part of that choice-making
process, I hope he takes a look at his prejudices, the way we've sort of
seen Ron doing (at least re: Hagrid and Giants) and 
grows beyond them the way Mr Draco, I mean Mr Darcy did... (spelling
mistake left intentionally). 

If anyone is curious to see my take on the characterisations of various
HP characters, were they in Jane Austen's world, they can take a peek at
my Homages, on The Astronomy Tower (part of FictionAlley.org) - they're
here: http://www.astronomytower.org/authors/heidi/Homage01.html
I'm not going to cut & paste any of them here, because out of context,
they don't work as well, but I think that many here would agree that
Snape makes a *lot of sense* as Lady Catherine. Hat and all. 

Then again, back in the Spring of 2001, there was a thread here about
how Snape is Darcy but I'll leave that one for the Snapefans to pick
back up. 

heidi