Anatomy of a Rift (Part 1 of 2) LONG

[serenadust <jmmears@comcast.net>]

No: HPFGUIDX 52463

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "naamagatus <naama_gat at h...>" 
<naama_gat at h...> wrote:
 
> Dicentra:
> 
> So. Back to The Rift. What *is* the cause of that, if not jealousy?
> 
> The clues, as usual, are in the text, hidden as background noise. 
If
> we look at the events between the time the Tournament is announced 
> and when Harry's name comes out of the Goblet, something 
interesting 
> shows up.
> 
> <snip dialogue between Ron and Harry regarding possiblity of 
entering 
> the Tournament> 
> 
> So here we see that Ron is gung-ho about entering, but Harry 
doesn't
> seem to be. We know from Harry's thoughts that he wouldn't mind
> winning, but from Ron's PoV, Harry isn't up for it. 
> 
> Or is he? The day after the Durmstrang and Beauxbatons students
> arrive, the Trio see the Goblet inside its Age Line. Ron asks a
> third-year girl if the other students have put their names in yet. 
> She says the Durmstrangs have, but no one from Hogwarts.
> 
> "Bet some of them put it in last night after we'd all gone to
> bed," said Harry. "I would've if it had been me ... wouldn't have
> wanted everyone watching. What if the goblet just gobbed you right
> back out again."
> 
> Then the twins and Lee Jordan show up, having taken a drop of Aging
> Potion each. 
> 
> "We're going to split the thousand Galleons between the three of
> us if one of us wins," said Lee, grinning broadly.
> 
> And so here we have another set of friends that are almost as
> inseparable as Harry and Ron. They've made a pact to try to enter 
the
> tournament anyway and split the winnings among themselves. They 
fail,
> of course, but what the hey. They gave it a try.
> 
> This is the context in which The Rift begins: Ron interested in 
> trying to get into the tournament, Harry not appearing to share 
Ron's
> enthusiasm, and Fred, George, and Lee working together to get in so
> they can split the winnings.
> 
> And so Harry's name comes out of the Goblet, inexplicably. Right 
out
> of the blue. Harry is of course stunned, but so is Ron, along with
> everyone else. 
> 
> "I didn't put my name in," Harry said, blankly. "You know I 
didn't."
> 
> [Ron and Hermione] stared back just as blankly.
> 
> What is Ron supposed to think at this point? How could Harry's name
> come out of the Goblet unless Harry put it there? Ron must have 
gone
> back over the events leading up to that moment, just as we have, to
> try to make sense of it all. He might not have noticed Harry's 
lack 
> of enthusiasm, but he does know that Harry never proposed a plan 
for
> fooling the Goblet. Not to him, anyway. Not the way the twins and 
Lee
> did. The only conclusion that makes sense to him is that Harry was
> planning to go for it all along, and he deliberately cut Ron out of
> his plans.
> 
> Suddenly, Harry must have seemed like a very different person to 
Ron.
> Harry had *never* left Ron out of *anything* before. Mugre y
uñas,
> remember? And yet the "evidence" that Harry ditched Ron this time 
is
> right there in his face. Is Ron feeling *jealous* of Harry because
> "everything happens to him"? I doubt it. Instead, he has to be 
> feeling deeply betrayed. And given what he and Harry have been 
> through together, that's gotta be a serious knife twist to the 
heart.


Naama writes:
> 
> Impressive though it is, I don't think this explanation makes 
> psychological sense. Firstly, we must remember that it was *not* 
> impossible to believe that Harry's name came out of the goblet 
> without him putting it there. Both Hermione and Hagrid immediately 
> believed Harry. Therefore, it is not a statement that's inherently 
> unbelieveable. Ron knows Harry as well as Hermione does and has 
had 
> no personal experience with Harry that should predispose him to 
doubt 
> Harry's word.



Me;
But he has had personal experience with Harry concerning the 
Triwizard Tournament which Hermione didn't share.  He and Harry 
actually discussed entering and how to get around the age line.  
Hermione had no interest in entering and wasn't part of that 
discussion.  Harry knows that Ron had at least some interest in 
entering and it would be quite natural for Ron to assume that if 
Harry attempted to put his name in the cup, he would at the very 
least tell Ron he was doing it and more likely, have Ron join him in 
the effort.  So I must agree with Dicentra in saying that Ron's 
reaction to Harry being chosen as a champion is based on a sense of 
Harry's having betrayed him and failed to include him in an 
adventure for the first time since they've become friends.


Naama again:
> So, why on earth should Ron disbelieve Harry in this instance? 
After 
> all, the only reason Ron is feeling hurt (according to your 
theory) 
> is because he feels betrayed. But this alleged betrayal has no 
other 
> basis than the belief that Harry is lying. Why on earth would Ron 
> believe something that causes him a lot of pain and is completely 
> unsubstantiated? 

Me:
See above. To Ron, this belief is not unsubstantiated.  
 
Naama again:
> Ron's reaction as you describe it does not agree with inherent 
human 
> tendencies. People have high resistance to painful facts. We go to 
> great lengths, expend large amounts of mental energy to not accept 
> painful facts, even when they are fairly well substantiated. Ron, 
on 
> the other hand, *chooses* to believe something that causes him 
pain. 
> It just doesn't make sense.

Me:
But it makes perfect sense to Ron. Even Dumbledore considers the 
possibility that Harry somehow figured out a way to get around the 
age line to put his name in the cup.  At this point in the story no 
one but Moody suggests that it's possible for anyone else to have 
put his name in.  That's the idea that doesn't make sense at this 
point, from Ron's POV.  He doesn't *want* to believe this painful 
fact.  He just can't come up with any other way to explain it. 




> Dicentra:

> "I'm not speaking to Harry because he hurt my ickle feelings." As
> b_boy observed, 
> 
> "The wound, the pain, in my opinion, were all inflicted by his
> perceived betrayal, but Ron isn't going to talk about his deep
> emotional wound, so externally it is expressed as statements of
> jealously and anger." --43919

> <snip description of scene at the dormitory, after talk with 
Sirius>

> Ron just stood there. Ron. Hot-tempered, easily-provoked,
> always-have-to-grab-his-robes-to-hold-him-back Ron. Harry has just
> vented a significant amount of wrath his way, including a physical
> attack, but Ron just stands there. 
> 
> Why?
> <snip>
> 
> Harry was already angry enough at Ron, but now he's stopped Sirius
> from telling him how to deal with dragons. He goes volcanic all 
over
> Ron, who gets defensive and lobs back another "fame-boy" 
accusation.
> And then Harry chucks the badge and accuses Ron of wanting to be
> famous, too. Of wanting to be *him*. 
> 
> I don't know for sure what Ron thought of that. It's the first time
> that Harry has voiced his suspicions about Ron's motives. (I don't
> know that Hermione said "Oh Ron, you're just being jealous," 
because
> he probably would have defended himself in such a way as to let
> Hermione know that he wasn't. He might have told her the real 
reason
> he was mad, or at least alluded to it. Or not.) 
> 
> Either way, Ron's reaction to this particular bit of Harry's 
vitriol
> isn't defensiveness; it seems more like *shock*. Harry's earlier 
> angry words would have fit in with the "I've ditched you" 
paradigm, 
> because he's telling Ron to butt out. Yet "here, have a scar; 
that's 
> what you want" might have come out of nowhere from Ron's 
perspective, 
> and he's too stunned to react.
 
Naama:
> 
> I think he doesn't react because Harry *hit a nerve*. If you're 
> accused of something that you're really innocent of, that really 
is 
> unconnected with you, I don't think you react with shock or that 
you 
> become so stunned. I think if the accusation was completely 
foreign 
> to Ron, he would have flung back the badge at Harry and said 
> something like "you've gone completely bonkers, Harry, you know 
that? 
> Maybe the photo shoot flashes have gone to your head." 


Me:

I suppose that would be one way to read it. To me it seems that Ron 
is just stunned by Harry's extreme and violent reaction toward him.  
Considering that before this episode they've never even had a mild 
disagreement, having Harry directing this kind of rage at him 
(instead of the cool "I'm not speaking to you unless absolutely 
necessary demeanor they've both shown up until now in this fight) 
must be really horrifying.  Remember that Ron's action in coming 
downstairs at this point was most likely motivated by concern about 
Harry's absence from the dormitory.  In spite of being on the outs 
with him, Ron still is worried about him, so to have come down to 
check on Harry and then being subjected to Harry's fit of temper 
would just be mind-blowing.  I do think that it's at this point that 
Ron begins to realize that Harry isn't behaving as he would if he 
really was pleased to be in the TWT, and that something really 
ominous is going on (as Dicentra pointed out so well in her post).

I'm very tardy in expressing my appreciation for Dicentra'a well 
reasoned and thorough posts laying out the reasons why "jealous Ron" 
is a faulty reading of the text.  It's the first time in the 1 1/2 
years I've been on the list that anyone has picked apart the entire 
Harry/Ron conflict that has changed so many list-members view of 
Ron's character from their pre-GoF impressions.  I must say that her 
interpretation is now the only one that makes sense of "The Rift" in 
the context of all four books.  The broad acceptance of "jealous 
Ron" as canon on the list never sat well with me, but I never was 
able to put the pieces together as Dicentra has.

I just wish *I* had been the one to do it.

Jo Serenadust