Anatomy of a Rift (Part 1 of 2) LONG

[naamagatus <naama_gat@hotmail.com>]

No: HPFGUIDX 52493

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "serenadust <jmmears at c...>" 
<jmmears at c...> wrote:
> 
> Naama writes:
> > 
> > Impressive though it is, I don't think this explanation makes 
> > psychological sense. Firstly, we must remember that it was *not* 
> > impossible to believe that Harry's name came out of the goblet 
> > without him putting it there. Both Hermione and Hagrid 
immediately 
> > believed Harry. Therefore, it is not a statement that's 
inherently 
> > unbelieveable. Ron knows Harry as well as Hermione does and has 
> had 
> > no personal experience with Harry that should predispose him to 
> doubt 
> > Harry's word.
> 
> 
> 
> Me;
> But he has had personal experience with Harry concerning the 
> Triwizard Tournament which Hermione didn't share.  He and Harry 
> actually discussed entering and how to get around the age line.  
> Hermione had no interest in entering and wasn't part of that 
> discussion.  Harry knows that Ron had at least some interest in 
> entering and it would be quite natural for Ron to assume that if 
> Harry attempted to put his name in the cup, he would at the very 
> least tell Ron he was doing it and more likely, have Ron join him 
>in the effort.  So I must agree with Dicentra in saying that Ron's 
> reaction to Harry being chosen as a champion is based on a sense of 
> Harry's having betrayed him and failed to include him in an 
> adventure for the first time since they've become friends.

There's maybe something I'm not getting here. If so, please clarify 
it for me. 
You say that Ron expected Harry to include him in any attempt to put 
their names in the cup. I agree. If Harry had indeed, after their 
conversation, put his name without involving Ron, it would have been 
a betrayal (of a kind) of their friendship. If that were the case, 
Ron would have rightly felt that Harry had let him down badly. 
BUT - what reason does Ron have to believe that Harry did such a 
thing? When Harry's name came out, Ron might have thought, for a few 
seconds, that Harry put his name in spite of everything, but almost 
immediately Harry *tells* him that he had done no such thing. Has 
Harry ever lied to Ron before? Does Ron know of Harry lying to others 
in similar cirucumstances? Why doesn't Ron believe Harry's flat 
denial? Ron's sense of betrayal has no other basis than this 
disbelief of Harry's word. And since this disbelief is irrational 
(because it's much more likely for Harry to tell the truth), there 
must be some underlying cause for it. 


  
> Naama again:
> > Ron's reaction as you describe it does not agree with inherent 
> human 
> > tendencies. People have high resistance to painful facts. We go 
to 
> > great lengths, expend large amounts of mental energy to not 
accept 
> > painful facts, even when they are fairly well substantiated. Ron, 
> on 
> > the other hand, *chooses* to believe something that causes him 
> pain. 
> > It just doesn't make sense.
> 
> Me:
> But it makes perfect sense to Ron. Even Dumbledore considers the 
> possibility that Harry somehow figured out a way to get around the 
> age line to put his name in the cup.  At this point in the story no 
> one but Moody suggests that it's possible for anyone else to have 
> put his name in.  That's the idea that doesn't make sense at this 
> point, from Ron's POV.  He doesn't *want* to believe this painful 
> fact.  He just can't come up with any other way to explain it. 
> 

Dumbledore believes Harry when Harry tells him that he didn't put his 
name in. Hermione and Hagrid both have no difficulty in believing him 
either. Of all the people who know Harry intimiately, Ron is the only 
one who refuses to take his word for it. It seems exactly as though 
he *does* want to believe in this painful fact.


> 
> Me:
> 
> I suppose that would be one way to read it. To me it seems that Ron 
> is just stunned by Harry's extreme and violent reaction toward 
him.  
> Considering that before this episode they've never even had a mild 
> disagreement, having Harry directing this kind of rage at him 
> (instead of the cool "I'm not speaking to you unless absolutely 
> necessary demeanor they've both shown up until now in this fight) 
> must be really horrifying.  Remember that Ron's action in coming 
> downstairs at this point was most likely motivated by concern about 
> Harry's absence from the dormitory.  In spite of being on the outs 
> with him, Ron still is worried about him, so to have come down to 
> check on Harry and then being subjected to Harry's fit of temper 
> would just be mind-blowing.  I do think that it's at this point 
>that Ron begins to realize that Harry isn't behaving as he would if 
>he really was pleased to be in the TWT, and that something really 
> ominous is going on (as Dicentra pointed out so well in her post).

Ron has always been shown as at least as sensitive of Harry's 
feelings and moods as Hermione. But in this case, strangely, he is 
quite blind to Harry's ongoing stress and misery? Harry has to throw 
something at him to make him aware that something isn't right? 
Hermione immediatley saw in Harry's face how shocked and dismayed he 
was when his name came out of the cup. Something was making Ron 
obtuse, since he is not like that naturally. 
I agree, though, that Harry's behavior at this point might be seen as 
bringing home to Ron how very miserable and angry he really is. But, 
as I see it, this worked in heightening Ron's sense of *guilt*, not 
in changing his perception of the reality (which he actually knows 
very well).


Naama