Veritaserum and Truth Potions (was 'How do you end the effect of veritaserum?')

[ssk7882 <skelkins@attbi.com>]

No: HPFGUIDX 52629

Some Veritaserum thoughts.

----------------

Amy asked:

> What really interests me about veritaserum is if a wizard could 
> convincingly lie under it's effects. I am thinking inparticular of 
> Severus Snape here. Could a wizard, under the effects of the 
> potion, avoid telling the truth, tell a round-about story or just 
> not answer the question entirly. Does it depend on the does and 
> it's strength?

It's hard for me to imagine why, if there were no possibility of 
veritaserum resistance, Dumbledore would have specified that Snape 
fetch his *strongest* veritaserum.

My interpretation was the same as Star Opal's: that some people,
whether due to an unusually strong will or to some innate talent, can 
occasionally muster up a bit of resistance to the stuff, if only 
enough to enable them to choose their words carefully enough to lie 
by omission or circumlocution.  

Given that Crouch Jr's performance throughout GoF shows him to have
been exceptionally skilled at *precisely* this sort of use of the 
language -- he was a master at the fine art of lying with the perfect
truth -- it was probably for the best that Dumbledore called for 
Snape's strongest serum. 

But why wouldn't one *always* use the strongest available veritaserum?

Kivrin (Welcome!) asked:

> In the end, I still wonder about the significance of different 
> levels of Truth Potions. Dumbledore obviously orders Snape to fetch 
> the "strongest Truth Potion," (which evidences that there are less 
> strong potions) but I cannot imagine what a lesser strength potion 
> would alter about a situation. Obviously, if the potion will allow 
> the individual to evade the truth then it fails at being a Truth 
> Potion. Moreover, if full ability to find the truth is found only 
> with Veritaserum, then what is the point of the existence of lesser 
> potions?

It seems possible to me that the point of potions of lesser potency
might be that they run less risk of permanent damage to the imbiber.

Crouch Jr's interrogation does not really last very long at all yet
by the end of it, he seems to be drifting off into a near-catatonic 
state.  Of course, it's so hard to tell what the cause here is.  On 
some level, Crouch Jr. must have known that he was doomed, and he was 
none too stable to begin with; the cause of his apparent descent into 
utter dissociation at the end there could have been situational.  Or, 
it could have been helped along by Snape's strongest veritaserum.

Dumbledore clearly did expect Crouch Jr. to be coherent enough later 
on to be able to give formal testimony: he says as much to Fudge.  It 
does seem possible to me, though, that really strong veritaserum 
might not be something one would want to use on, say, a *witness,* as 
opposed to a convict, or on a defendent one was not already certain 
was guilty as sin and facing a life sentence in prison anyway.  It 
could be that, much like being hit with an overly enthusiastic memory 
charm, imbibing overly potent veritaserum has permanent and 
detrimental effects on ones mental facilities.

-------

How much awareness does the subject have?

Kivrin wrote:

> One of the things that struck me most about the use of Veritaserum 
> in GoF was the description of Crouch Jr. as Dumbledore interrogated 
> him. "Crouch's son opened his eyes. His face was slack, his gaze 
> unfocused. Dumbledore knelt before him, so that their faces were 
> level
[t]he man's eyelids flickered
Crouch took a deep, shuddering 
> breath, then began to speak in a flat, expressionless voice," (US 
> hardback, pg 683-684). This diction suggests wholly that Crouch Jr. 
> is not under his own control, he is speaking because the serum is 
> extracting the information, much as a computer search will yield 
> data. It is emotionless, "flat, expressionless" -- there is 
> no "person" behind what is being said.

I too interpreted his diction, his lack of affect, and his shuddering 
breaths all as evidence that he was not under his own control.

I also, however, interpreted some of this as evidence that he *did* 
have some awareness of what he was saying.  I find it significant, 
for example, that Crouch's breathing is specified as "shuddering" 
only at the beginning of his interrogation.  Similarly, his eyelids 
flicker in response to Dumbledore's early questions, but then stop 
doing so later on -- or at least the narrative stops mentioning 
them.  All of these seeming symptoms of compulsion are mentioned only 
at the beginning of the scene. 

My interpretation was that both the shuddering breathing and the 
flickering eyelids were symptomatic of Crouch attempting (and 
failing) to resist the overwhelming compulsion of the veritaserum.  
Eventually, it would seem, he just gave up and...well, you know.  
Just lay back and tried to enjoy it. ;-)

As for the extent to which there is a "person" in there guiding the 
veritaserum-compelled narrative, I myself believe that there is, 
although I also believe it to be severely constrained, and 
*certainly* incapable of overcoming the compulsion of the potion 
to the extent of either refusing to answer or speaking anything 
but the (at times subjective) truth.  I do not see Crouch's testimony 
as at all a computer-like "just the facts, ma'am" account.  Rather, I 
see it as quite subjective and digressive.

In the past, I've cited Crouch's diction and word choices in 
"Veritaserum" as evidence both of his rationalizations about the role 
his father played in saving him from Azkaban (message #47932) and of 
the lack of pleasure he took in committing parricide on Voldemort's 
orders (message #47962).  

This is part of an "Crouch Jr, Unwilling Parricide" argument From 
message #47962.  I cite it here because it shows some of the ways in 
which I see agency -- or, at least, personality -- underlying even 
the affect-flattening compulsion of the veritaserum in the 
confessional.

<excerpt begins>

======================================================================

While Crouch Jr's testimony in the 'Veritaserum' chapter is indeed
largely a matter of plot exposition, I think that we can deduce quite 
a bit from it about his character and motives as well. For one 
thing, it is clear from his testimony that he *is,* in fact, capable 
of quite a bit of digression. He is also capable of emotional,
subjective, and non-factual testimony.

This is how Crouch Jr describes his experience at the QWC. 
The "question" which he is answering in this passage is: "Tell me 
about the Quidditch World Cup."

----------------

"Then we heard them. We heard the Death Eaters. The ones who had 
never been to Azkaban. The ones who had never suffered for my master. 
They had turned their backs on him. They were not enslaved, as I was. 
They were free to seek him, but they did not. They were merely making 
sport of Muggles. The sound of their voices awoke me. My mind was 
clearer than it had been in years. I was angry. I had the wand."

-----------------

Okay. His affect is certainly deadened, although I've never been 
altogether clear on whether that's really completely due to the 
Veritaserum, or whether it's also due to the fact that he's finally 
slipped his very last mooring. I rather suspect that it's a bit of 
both. Whatever the cause, though, it doesn't prevent him either from 
volunteering information or from showing insight. Dumbledore did not 
ask him to explain his motives for behaving as he did at the QWC. He 
did not ask him about the wand. He did not ask him about breaking 
free of the Imperius Curse. Crouch Jr. is volunteering all of that 
information, based on his *own* interpretion of what about the QWC is 
important, relevant, or of interest. And given the emotional nature 
of the above passage, I think that it is also clear that to a certain 
extent, he is choosing to focus on what about this event was of 
importance to *him.* 

This is really not factual testimony. It's not a 'just the facts, 
ma'am' account. It is subjective, emotional, and personal.

Nor is Crouch Jr. completely deadened in affect, although he is 
extremely dissociated. He's not exactly a zombie. He is capable of 
emotional responses, albeit of a rather disturbing sort.

----------------------

"'My father answered the door.'

"The smile spread wider over Crouch's face, as though recalling the 
sweetest memory of his life. Winky's petrified brown eyes were 
visible through her fingers. She seemed too appalled to speak.

"'It was very quick. My father was placed under the Imperius Curse by 
my master. Now my father was the one imprisoned, controlled.'"

---------------------------------------

That's what Veritaserum'd!Barty looks like when he's enjoying the 
memory of a bit of payback on dear old Dad, yes? He's not so far 
gone that he can't display emotion, albeit of a rather mad sort, at 
the memory of vengeance. And he doesn't lack insight so utterly as 
to be incapable of explaining the extent to which his pleasure at 
this memory derives from Turnabout-Is-Fair-Playdom either. He may 
have bats in his belfry, but he is perfectly emotionally 
comprehensible. He can explain his motives, and he seems often to be 
interested in doing so, even when it is not technically required of 
him. He does so at times quite eloquently, in fact: "It was my 
dream, my greatest ambition, to serve him, to prove myself to him." 

But this is all that he has to say about his act of parricide:

----------------------------

"'My master sent me word of my father's escape. He told me to stop 
him at all costs. So I waited and watched. I used the map...'"

There then follows some discussion of the Map, and then:

"'For a week I waited for my father to arrive at Hogwarts. At last, 
one evening, the map showed my father entering the grounds. I pulled 
on my Invisibility Cloak and went down to meet him. He was walking 
around the edge of the forest. Then Potter came, and Krum. I waited. 
I could not hurt Potter; my master needed him. Potter ran to get 
Dumbledore. I Stunned Krum. I killed my father.'"

--------------------

And that's it. There's no editorial commentary there. No mad grin. 
No gloating. No description of his feelings about this turn of 
events. Nothing. It's a very stark series of statements of fact, 
and it is nothing at all like the way he speaks of recovering his own 
volition after a decade under the Imperius, or of firing the Dark 
Mark into the sky at the QWC, or of watching Voldemort overpower his 
father.

Dumbledore then gives him an opening to elaborate on the parricide
if he so chooses. "You killed your father?" 

Crouch Jr. says absolutely *nothing* in response to this, although he 
does answer the next question about what he did with the 
body: "Carried it into the forest. Covered it with the Invisibility 
Cloak." We're back to choppy sentences and 'just the facts' here, 
although Crouch is in fact *not* incapable of a far more eloquent 
mode of diction. He will prove this with the very last line of his 
confession: "My master's plan worked. He is returned to power and I 
will be honored by him beyond the dreams of wizards." Even at the 
very end, his diction is not so degraded that he cannot manage that 
sentence. But when asked about the disposal of his father's body, 
incomplete and choppy sentences are all he has to offer. 

Crouch Jr. does not speak of murdering his father in at all the same 
way that he speaks of either his acts of anger or of payback events 
that he actually took pleasure in. He shows no signs of enjoyment at 
the memory, nor any inclination to elaborate upon the event any 
further than he absolutely must do to satisfy his interrogator. 
While he may imply to Harry that he considered it an act of homage to 
Voldemort, when he is actually under the Veritaserum and therefore 
compelled to speak the truth, the only motive that he offers is that 
he was under direct orders to see it done "at all costs." He is not 
even willing to confess to it a second time: he does not assent when 
Dumbledore asks for confirmation that he killed his father. His 
diction degenerates into choppy broken sentences when he is forced to 
discuss it. Compare his diction here with his diction when he speaks 
of topics on which he *does* seem proud of his actions and eager to 
communicate his motives: his devotion to Voldemort, his fury with the 
disloyal DES at the QWC. Compare his affect here with his affect 
when he speaks of Voldemort's arrival at his father's home.

All of this leads me to conclude that Crouch really didn't enjoy 
killing his father at all. He was clearly willing to do it. But I 
don't think that he was at all happy about it. 


=====================================================================

<excerpt ends>

While I do view the "Veritaserum" chapter as primarily plot 
exposition for the reader's benefit, I also believe that JKR uses 
Crouch's confessional to establish quite a bit about his character 
and motivations -- really, just about everything we know about him 
comes from this one chapter-long monologue.  It is my opinion that 
that much of this material serves to bolster GoF's thematic emphasis 
on the developmental issues of adolescence.



Elkins (who suspects that we'll find out precisely what speaking 
through Veritaserum feels like first-hand in future canon, as she 
thinks that Harry is more than likely to get fed it sooner or later 
in the series)