Death and time

[Melody <Malady579@hotmail.com>]

No: HPFGUIDX 49202

Cantoramy wrote:
> This is my first posting, so please excuse me if this has been
> discussed before.

Welcome Cantoramy.  :)  This actually was discussed last week, but
since we all love to hear ourselves talk, I'll do my best to explain
why Cedric could not of been saved.


Catoramy asked:
> In PoA, Harry and Hermione are able to use the Time Turner to
> liberate Buckbeak, thereby preventing his death.  Yet in GoF, no one
> suggests using the TT to prevent Voldemort's return and Cedric's
> death.  I know that Dumbledore says in GoF that "no spell can
> reawaken the dead."  Would the TT qualify as a spell?

You are getting stuck on how we *read* the events and how they
actually happened in time.  When you first read the events before
H1&H1 (Harry and Hermione *before* they use the time turner) use the
time turner, you do not realize that H2&H2 (Harry and Hermione *after*
they use the time turner) are in fact there at the same time.  The
time turner was *not* used to save Buckbeak after he had already died
but to save him period.  Dumbledore knew that Buckbeak was not
tethered behind Hagrid's hut (and therefore not dead) when they were
in the hospital wing as he told H1&H1 to use the time turner.  He
*knew* Buckbeak was saved.  Are you following me?  What was in our
mind a reality without a used time turner was in fact the exact time
the TT was being used.

Turn off your muggle reality a minute and imagine this fact.  A loop
in time was created and two Harry's and two Hermione's existed for
three hours.  Just H1&H1 did not know H2&H2 were there.  So therefore,
when we first read about H1&H1 we do not know that Buckbeak was saved.
 We think, as they do, that Buckbeak died with the ax swing.  Later on
we learn that the ax swing we heard was out of frustration and not a
murderous zeal.  Poor MacNair was deprived.  How tragic.  Anyway...

So the TT did not save Buckbeak's life per say.  It was just what
happened in the future to bring about the events in the past.  Hehe,
got that?  :D

So really, the fact Cedric did in fact *die* cannot be helped by a
time turner, because events that happen in the past cannot be changed
in the future.  H2&H2 did not change events when they went back in
time.  They in fact just performed the events that did happen in the
past.  Oh gracious this talks circles.  Sorry.  I hope you can follow
this.  My line of logic is sound but it has problems with being
explained in plain English (which is tragic on my part since I cannot
speak any other language).  So then, Cedric is dead and there is
nothing they can do about it.  If there was then it would of happened
in the present which could not of happened because they would of only
known they needed to use the TT by what happened in the past which
brings us to the reality that he was in fact dead and that cannot be
changed.  Hehe.  Confused yet?

So why is it that H2&H2 could do any good with Black?  Well, they went
back in the past to reach the moment in the present where they can be
in the right place to save Black in the future.  Once H1&H1
disappeared in the hospital wing, there was only one set of H&H left,
so they became *the* H&H.  Then they can save Black since that is now
the present.

So to cap this ever so confusing explanation that I fear might have
not of helped at *all*....

Buckbeak never died; so therefore, the Time Turner did not "save" his
life.  It just allowed what happened in the past to happen with people
from the future.  :D  So then, Cedric could not of been saved by the
TT.  He is, unfortunately, dead.


Melody