SHIP: The Four Loves: Why R/Hr is preferred to H/Hr

[elfundeb]

No: HPFGUIDX 50225

I had drafted a predictable defense of Ron's place in the trio post, starting it with the disclaimer that I'm a no-shipper. Then I read Eileen's post, pointing out that "I began
to realize that one of the reasons I love the HP
series is that friendship is very much one of the four
loves here. In fact, so far, philos (friendship) and
storge (affection) are the important loves of the
Potterverse. People have sacrificed their lives for
both," and realized that a lot of my thinking dovetails with the philos/storge concepts.

The primary reason I don't like to ship is that the Trio's friendship don't need a romance in order for them to provide emotional and other resources for one another. In my view each of Harry, Hermione and Ron is already emotionally invested in both of the others in a philos/storge sense. 

Not that the Trio do not also harbor feelings of eros for one another. We have a good idea of Ron's feelings. I also think it's possible that Hermione has romantic feelings for either or both of her best friends, and that the text has been deliberately written to confuse the issue. However, I think the struggle for them in the next books may be to preserve the philos and storge of their relationships notwithstanding any other feelings (FITD or otherwise) that they may have.  That, I think, has been the basis of my no-shipping stance.  However, I've had a sneaking suspicion that at the very end the series would veer R/H.

Anyway, here's what I wrote. Some of the material to which I'm replying is days old and it's ridiculously long, but brevity is, unfortunately, not my strong point. If you make it to the end there's an alternate "take" on the Unexpected Task scene with a little less sting than the one Ebony posted.

Jim Ferer wrote:

> Now take his part in the Trio. He's Harry's best friend, but already we see signs of a Harry/Hermione team that has less time for Ron in it. Hermione is Harry's coach and personal trainer, the intellect who prepares him for the challenges he faces. Hermione teaches Harry spells while Ron acts as the Stunning dummy. When the Trio discuss events and theories with Sirius and "Moody," Ron doesn't quite keep up.

Me:

Though Hermione's accomplishments are more obvious, I think there are subtle clues, even in GoF, that Ron is not falling behind generally, although his desperation for compliments in GoF makes it look that way. For example, when the Trio prepare Harry for the Third Task, we see Hermione directing the spells while Ron acts as dummy. However, the text states that "they" had made the list of spells, and that sacrifices were required on both Ron's and Hermione's part. (GoF, ch. 29.) And later, when we last see them preparing Harry, we see Ron executing an Impediment Charm that stops a fly dead in midair, showing that he's been learning those same spells they're teaching Harry. 

Also, a lot of what JKR writes is intended to be funny. And though I believe Hermione does have a sense of humor, she doesn't work well in sight gags. I found the vision of Ron being stunned and toppling over rather funny, and it would not have worked at all with Hermione taking on that role. At the same time, using Ron as the dummy highlights once again, Ron's willingness to make physical sacrifices for Harry. 

Also, their preparation for the Third Task is very different from the first two. In the first task, when only Hermione helped him, he became so stressed out he almost didn't have the concentration to master the Summoning Charm. ("Harry liked Hermione very much, but she just wasn't the same as Ron. There was much less laughter and a lot more hanging around in the library when Hermione was your best friend. Harry still hadn't mastered Summoning Charms, he seemed to have developed something of a block about them, and Hermione insisted that learning the theory would help." And, "'Hermione,' Harry said, through gritted teeth, "will you shut up for a bit, please? I'm trying to concentrate.") In the second task, perhaps overreacting to the stress Hermione's efforts in the first task had produced, Harry is too quick to join Ron in chess or other activities and ignore Hermione's admonitions to get to work, with the result that he puts off his preparation so long that he almost fails completely. It's only when the three of them work together, as they do in the Third Task, that he feels confident about the task, and what happens in the maze illustrates that he *is* well-prepared. They all bring something to the mix, and the best things happen when the three of them are working together. 

For whatever reason, though, JKR seems to be promoting a surface read that Ron's contributions to the Trio are less than Hermione's. I don't know whether it's intended as misdirection allowing us to suspect Ron would (wittingly or unwittingly) betray Harry, but it's increasingly hard to notice Ron's contributions.  However, his skills are still there, even if they're not highlighted. He still has his strategist skills, demonstrated by his chess talent. While he hasn't had much of an opportunity to use it on Harry's behalf of late, we know that in GoF he is still ahead of Harry in this department, which involves manipulation of live pieces; we see him defeating Harry at chess in "an exciting checkmate . . . involving a couple of recklessly brave pawns and a very violent bishop." The other thing Ron has to offer is keen observatory skills - relating to people as well as things. Those are also still in evidence in GoF. He's the one who notices how emotionally dependent Winky is on Crouch Sr. He picks up on the twins' need for funds. We are led by Hermione to believe that he is wrong and jumping to conclusions, but I'm not so sure about that; Hermione's judgments are often colored by her own expectations about how people in certain positions will behave, not from observing what they actually do; Ron's judgments may appear to be wrong, but he's basing them on what he has observed.

I also think that Hermione's seeming maturity in GoF is something of a set-up. Hermione has grown a great deal through the first four books, but she has not really lost her trust that people (especially those in authority) will do the *right* thing. She objects when Ron suggests that the twins might be blackmailing someone, and when he suggests Percy might throw a family member to the dementors. Her blindness about the house-elves causes her to misjudge Crouch Sr., yet she still doesn't want to believe that he would send his son to Azkaban. Hermione makes these judgments with her heart instead of her intellect. They have not hurt her to date, but that's an undercurrent I believe is waiting to be explored. 

Penny on his self-esteem:

What he really needs is to sort out his self-esteem problems and *then* he'll be ready for a romantic relationship with someone like Hermione. At the present though, I think he would need to see himself as the dominant or more successful party, and he's sure not going to get that from Hermione. I think if the two of them end up dating it will turn into a power battle, due to Ron not being confident enough in his own abilities to let Hermione shine in her own right.

Me:

I have a lot of problems with the idea that Ron needs someone who will prop up his lagging self-esteem. To take this comment out of the shipping context, would he do better to find different friends that would shore up his self-esteem by making him feel more important? I would never question that Ron has self-esteem problems, as in fact each of the Trio do. But I think that the *last* thing Ron needs is someone who will make him feel successful at his current achievement level. That's a recipe for stagnation in his development. I think he could be much more than he has shown if he could recognize his abilities. It would be completely counterproductive for him to become the big fish in a small pond. 

The fact that he has chosen Harry and Hermione as his best friends indicates to me that at some level he truly believes his is on a par with them. If being their friend was not what he really wanted he had the opportunity in GoF, during his fight with Harry, to distance himself from them both. Unlike Harry, Ron was not isolated; he spent the time of the fight hanging around with his brothers and with Seamus and Dean.. But he chose to patch up the friendship (and before Harry was ready, based on the scene when Ron interrupts Harry's conversation with Sirius). He'd much rather swim in the big pond.

I also think that the fact that neither Ron nor Hermione makes any attempt to "pump up" the other's self-esteem is a positive thing. Where the H/H shippers see tiresome bickering, I see two characters who are blunt and honest with one another, and therefore challenge each other's assumptions and beliefs. I think this is important for Hermione as well as Ron, because like Ron, she's not always right, but most people (Harry included) don't challenge her as she needs to be challenged. In fact, I often think the Harry-Hermione relationship partakes too much of a mutual admiration society. Hermione has made a number of statements that indicate that she belittles her own talents and does not believe she can hold a candle to Harry on really important matters. Hermione admires Harry's talents far more than her own: ("Harry, you're a great wizard . . . . Books! And cleverness! There are more important things - friendship and bravery"). And in PoA, "You conjured up a Patronus that drove away all those dementors!  That's very, *very* advanced magic . . . ."  Harry often seems to show the same amazement at Hermione's skills, reflecting his own self-esteem problems. However, Harry's problem is not recognizing his truly extraordinary abilities: he may be the greatest young wizard to come to Hogwarts since Dumbledore himself, and he thinks he's *only* good at Quidditch. 

There's a great deal of emphasis in the books on Harry's attempt to be a "normal" young wizard. I believe that's the undercurrent of PoA and Harry's desire to go to Hogsmeade as all the other students do, to the point of ignoring the grave threat escaped prisoner Sirius Black supposedly represents. However, as we all know, Harry is not "normal." He's the first first-year Quidditch player in 100 years. He's defeated or held off Voldemort three times already. He can fight off the Imperius Curse. There's nothing normal about him. How many of us can identify with Harry's virtually superhuman talents? Not many. But many, many of us can identify with Hermione. She is all too human. 

I don't see Harry and Hermione working together as an equal team. I see an underlying message in the books that Hermione's book-learning and logic can take one only so far. In the end, Hermione's contribution is in a supporting role to Harry whose natural talents and pureness of heart make him the unquestioned star. No matter how great her accomplishments may be, and no matter how much Harry may appreciate her efforts, she will always be in his shadow. So will Ron, whose efforts may be different in nature but equally important. Interestingly, while searching The Ivory Tower and Harry Potter for a quote that Penny paraphrased (which I couldn't find even using the index), I came across the following in Farah Mendlesohn's essay which supports this point. She states that fantasy surrounds the hero with companions whose role is to "provide their skills to enable the hero to achieve specific things for which the *hero* and not they take the credit and the prize." As Pippin said earlier in this debate, Harry is the epic hero and as such, he's on a different plane from those who assist him. Ultimately, both Ron and Hermione's skills will have to give way to Harry, leaving them in a more complementary position to one another. 

As Eileen pointed out, "Harry's relationship with Hermione is to the reader
much more important than Ron's relationship with
Hermione. In the end, as much as we like to talk about
Avery, Snape, and Crouch, it's all about Harry. What
JKR would do by choosing R/Hr over H/Hr is giving
primacy to the philos relationship over the eros
relationship." That would not destroy the *philos* with respect to Harry, because both of them serve a similar role for Harry (though no one would contest that they provide their support in different ways).

Therefore, if I were a betting woman, I'd place my money on R/H over H/H. But not till the end. Because romance *would* spoil the great adventure. Unrequited crushes (or crushes believed to be unrequited), on the other hand, seem to be both angsty and humorous, at least in JKR's hands, especially when there's something much more important at stake.

The Unexpected Task

Linda McCabe's explanation of The Unexpected Task which Ebony cited:

> "We should get a move on, you know . . . ask someone. He's right. We don't want to end up with a pair of trolls."

> Hermione let out a sputter of indignation.

> "A pair of... what, excuse me?"

> "Well - you know," said Ron, shrugging. "I'd rather go alone than with - with Eloise Midgen, say."

> "Her acne's loads better lately - and she's really nice!"

> "Her nose is off-center," said Ron.

> "Oh I see," Hermione said, bristling. "So basically, you're going to take the best-looking girl who'll have you, even if she's completely horrible?"

> "Er - yeah, that sounds about right," said Ron. 

> "I'm going to bed," Hermione snapped, and she swept off toward the girls' staircase without another word. (GoF, UK paper, p. 344) 

> *****************

> "Trolls. You know the twelve foot mountain troll that almost killed Hermione back in book 1? The nasty, smelly, foul creature who terrorized her. Ron didn't even consider asking Hermione, he was concerned about not having to go out with a troll! Hermione wasn't even on his radar screen even though she was supposedly his other best friend. I'd be mighty insulted by that exchange. He compounded his insult by describing Eloise Midgen in very uncomplimentary terms - someone who Hermione thinks is "really nice." Looks are more important to him than anything else. And females, especially bookish females can feel very insecure about their own looks. That conversation wouldn't endear him to me in the least."

Me: 

I want to offer a different take on this scene based on my view is that Ron tries hard not to acknowledge that he even *has* ambitions and goals, and part of the reason why he comes off so badly in the Unexpected Task/Yule Ball sequence is that he won't even acknowledge his real desires, leaving him dangerously open to suggestion.

There's no question that Hermione was highly offended by Ron's remarks, and that they particularly stung because, despite being clever and brilliant and nice to boot, the onset of the Yule Ball has brought on in her an attack of ugly duckling fears. Unquestionably Ron's remarks feed her insecurities, and she reacts in kind.

But look at what precedes this exchange:

Fred: "So . . . you lot got dates for the ball yet?"

"Nope," said Ron.

"Well, you'd better hurry up, mate, or all the good ones will be gone," said Fred.

"Who're you going with, then?" said Ron. 

"Angelina," said Fred promptly, without a trace of embarrassment.

"What?" said Ron, taken aback. "You've already asked her?" 

"Good point," said Fred. [snip Fred's very public show of asking Angelina to ball]

They left. Ron stopped feeling his eyebrows and looked across the smoldering wreck of his card castle at Harry." 

I think this is a brilliantly funny scene (in fact, The Unexpected Task is wonderfully comic throughout), but the juxtaposition of Fred's nonchalance and Ron's blowup of his card castle sets up the much-quoted exchange as a young, immature sibling being goaded into doing something stupid by big brother. And not just any big brother, but one who is only too happy to make his brothers the butt of jokes; a big brother who once turned his teddy bear into a spider, triggering a lifelong fear of spiders; a big brother who once took his pet and used it for bludger practice (and, yes, Ron may complain about his pets, but he is very attached to them). Ron does not want to become fodder for Fred, so he tries to act like he has a clue about getting a partner. He doesn't. He hasn't given any thought at all to this topic. He hasn't thought about Hermione as a girl. Or anyone else, for that matter. Therefore, he's going to put his very large foot into his mouth. 

Next, Ron's reference to trolls. They are quite ugly, but they are also exceedingly stupid. Fred says at the QWC that anyone can speak Troll; you can only point and grunt, and in FBAWTFT, it states that Trolls had being status temporarily because they "had been taught a few simple sentences by the goblins. Hermione takes the comment as a reference to appearance, because the first thing she does is refer to Eloise's acne. Ron objects that her nose is off-center, a seemingly surface-level indictment of poor Eloise. But if you look at *why* Eloise's nose is off-center, there may be another explanation for the troll remark. All we know about Eloise is that she managed to remove her nose while attempting to curse off her acne, and that Madam Pomfrey managed to reattach it for her. In other words, her nose is *not* off-center because she was born that way but because of a desperate, botched attempt to improve her appearance. That suggests that Eloise is not too adept at magic. So I think Ron's aversion to Eloise is not rooted - at least solely -- in her less-than-perfect looks. 

But from Hermione's perspective (which the surface reading suggests to the reader) it's all about looks, because she shares Eloise's insecurities. She sympathizes with what Eloise did to herself in a way that Ron does not; in fact, she herself has engaged in a bit of magical self-improvement. She was more fortunate than Eloise, however, because was able to get Madam Pomfrey to shrink her teeth for her.  (In fact, we know that Hermione is likely to have been able to perform the spell just fine herself.) 

>From Ron's perspective, the rest of the exchange consists of Ron stumbling around putting his foot in his mouth because he has no conscious knowledge of his attraction to her. His response to Hermione's remark that he intended to take the best-looking girl even if she was horrible ("Er - yeah, that sounds about right") suggests to me that he had no thoughts about the subject at all and was going to let Hermione put words in his mouth for him. This is an extension of what I see as Ron's inability to engage in self-help. Notice that throughout the Unexpected Task, he never makes any effort to get a date except for when he succumbs to Fleur's veela charms ("I was just walking past her in the entrance hall - she was standing there talking to Diggory - and it sort of came over me.")

Yeah, Ron had a bad couple of chapters, and he'll probably have some bad chapters in OoP as well.  But I like my characters that way.


Debbie

Proud member of PACMAN (Perfectly Angelic Characters Make Awful Novels) and CRAB (Cut Ron A Break) but not looking for a berth on any SHIP


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