[HPforGrownups] Re: SHIP: The Four Loves: Why R/Hr is preferred to H/Hr

[Eileen]

No: HPFGUIDX 50228

 --- "Jim Ferer <jferer at yahoo.com>" <jferer at yahoo.com>
wrote: 
> Ron and Hermione would be, on Ron's side, Eros
first,
> philos second.  That can and does work every day, if
> friendship has
> enough strength, but R/H can't be called
> counterpoint to the romantic
> paradigm.

No, R/Hr is not counterpoint to the romantic paradigm.
But in an R/Hr scenario, the important relationship is
not R/Hr. The important relationships are H-Hr and
H-R. And that is counterpoint to the romantic
paradigm. 


> I believe you've just agreed with me; use whatever
> term makes you most
> comfortable.

<grins> Yes. 

> Me again, from the previous post:"Their shared
> experience will always
> be the most intense of their lives. Even if Harry
> and Hermione marry
> and have five kids together their relationship will
> still have its
> roots deeply embedded in the philos and comradeship
> and sharing of
> their quest, as if their names had been Frodo and
> Samantha. Eros will
> not drive out philos." 
> 
> Eileen:" No, I don't think it would. Why else would
> I ship R/Hr?"
> 
> That lost me there.  Badly. 

The point is only that I obviously do not believe that
eros will drive out philos to be shipping R/Hr, since
R/Hr is a pairing of friends. 

> Jim (me):"Hoping that the philos remains untainted
> by eros is somehow
> medieval, a sort of the Lives of the Saints thing,
> and doesn't seem to
> have faith philos can stand the competition."
> 
> Eileen:"You misunderstand me then, since I have
> hoped no such thing.
> As noted above, I do ship R/Hr which is eros between
> two *friends.*"
> 
> "Eros rules all today and, therefore, I desperately
> want to see philos
> in the absence of eros in the place of honour."
> 
> That's contradictory.  Would H/Hr *not* be 'eros
> between two friends?'
> And isn't H/Hr as of now extremely strong philos
> without eros (yet)?


Yes, H/Hr would be eros between two friends. But I
don't ship R/Hr because it is eros between two
friends. That fact makes me like R/Hr, but the real
reason I ship R/Hr is because it takes any potential
eros out of Harry and Hermione's relationship, which
as I've pointed out, is much more important to the
reader than Ron and Hermione's relationship. 

Again, this is a matter of personal preference. And
even a matter of subversive personal preference, given
that a great part of the population would prefer to
see "eros between two friends" as the series' most
important relationship.  

H-Hr as of now is indeed extremely strong philos
without eros. I'd really like to see it stay that way.


> Eileen:"The question is not whether Harry or
> Hermione, or Ron or
> Hermione would be driven together by the romantic
> paradigm. The
> question is whether the HP series will end up
> promoting the romantic
> paradigm."
> 
> The readers will control that, not JKR, no matter
> how it turns out. 

In some respects, this is true. One only needs to pay
a call to the Sugar Quill to see that R/Hr, which is
canonically subordinate to Harry and Hermione's
relationship and to Harry and Ron's relationship can
become of higher importance to the fans. Such is the
nature of the fandom. Just as I usually focus on
characters who are not really at all that important. 

Still, there is the text. And while we intrepret it
differently, it does objectively exist. Harry will
either end up in love with Hermione or not. I'd prefer
that he not, because I think I've had enough of eros
always hogging the spotlight. 

> Any way it goes, it would still be better than 90%
> of any other
> literature I know of.  They're all friends, genuine
> friends.  You
> can't lose.

And that's true as well. 

I don't believe that JKR would for a minute consider
half the conclusions I would like, but I'm
enthusiastic about the end, anyway. (Though, I've made
a reputation for myself with the line, "Trust no
author until they're finished!)  
 
> Jim Ferer, who shut his head in the bathroom door
> five times at
> mention of the "meta" word

I am sorry. I was only joking by bringing up that
reprehensible world. My profound apologies!

Eileen

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