SHIP: Ron and Hermione do TOO banter!

[anguaorc <fausts@attglobal.net>]

No: HPFGUIDX 50348

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Laura Ingalls Huntley" 
<huntleyl at m...> wrote:
> But she's attacking Ron for his ghastly remark.  Harry didn't do 
anything
> wrong, why should she turn on him as well?  

She would not necessarily be attacking Harry -- she could be 
encouraging him to disassociate himself from Ron's remark (which 
included him).  If she were truly anxious about Harry's opinion on 
such matters, she could have gotten it at that point without 
necessarily "turning on" him.

> I agree with your point here.  There are few instances that might be
> construed as *solid* support for H/H.  However, I see very little 
instances
> that give concrete support for Hr ---> R, either.  As far as I can 
tell, the
> only thing we can be sure of is that Ron Likes Hermione.  A lot.  
We don't
> know if she returns his feelings -- and as far as I've seen, R/Hers 
have yet
> to come up with anything but shaky (at best) conjectures and 
hypothesis
> about what she might be feeling in certain circumstances.

One thing that is clear, though: there are very few "missed 
opportunities" with R/H.  

Ron has a crush on Fleur -- we look to see if Hermione betrays 
jealousy, and -- sure enough -- there are signs that can easily be 
read that way.

Ron goes to the Yule Ball with Padma -- does Hermione have a problem 
with that?  Well, we don't see anything at first, but then there is 
the incident when Ron is bragging to Padma (who is suddenly a lot 
more interested in him) after the Second Task, and Hermione rudely 
shuts him up.

Ron makes insensitive remarks about dating pretty girls -- does 
Hermione mind?  Yes, very much.

Ron makes an incredibly tactless remark, "You *are* a girl!" -- and 
what does Hermione do?  She says, "Just because YOU haven't spotted 
I'm a girl, Ron, doesn't mean nobody else has!"

I'm really hard-put to think of a time when Hermione COULD have 
betrayed interest in Ron, and failed to.  

When he went into the Veela 
trance -- "Honestly" both times, with tutting and arm pulling.

When he was in danger from the Second Task -- "I was so busy seeing 
if you and Harry were okay..."

When Harry asked her if she wouldn't rather go to Hogsmeade with Ron -
- she blushed.

When Ron's mother snubbed her -- she was hurt, but didn't say 
anything.

When Ron calls her a "scarlet woman" -- she giggled.

When she heard that he had asked out another girl -- she was very 
angry and taunted him.


With R/H, we see opportunities taken and romantic expectations 
fulfilled.  With H/H, we see (much better) opportunities completely 
missed and romantic expectations left empty and flapping.

> Do you think that she would have let Harry get away with saying 
what Ron
> said?  I really can't even begin to imagine that -- it would be 
totally
> uncharacteristic of her.

I certainly don't think she would have looked as if he had slapped 
her and spoken with a quivering voice, or blushed so deeply that she 
was the same color as Parvati's robes, or stormed off.  We've 
certainly never *seen* Hermione respond to Harry like that.

> > Angua again:
> > No -- we think that there is all this wonderful bantering R/H
> > interaction happening ON-PAGE.  Well, we think it probably happens
> > off-page as well (because why wouldn't it?) but what we see right
> > there in canon is plenty enough to stoke our engines.  They banter
> > beautifully, especially considering their young age.
> 
> Banter?  *Banter*?! Calling what Hermione and Ron do "banter" is an 
insult
> to a very fine art.  They bicker.  They out-and-out fight.  They 
insult one
> another.  They do not banter.  To banter is to tease.  To make witty
> semi-clawed comments.  To engage in playful mock-sparring.  They do 
nothing
> of the sort.  Occasionally Ron will say something mean-but-humorous 
that is
> meant to rile her (which can be a lead-in to banter), but I cannot 
recall
> Hermione reacting with anything but irritation or anger (again, not
> bantering) -- she does not play back.  Mostly, however, he's just 
being
> cluelessly insensitive.

Oh, I SO disagree, and I don't know any way to argue this except 
quotation.  Here are some examples of what I consider to be 
successful, two-sided bantering (sorry about length! -- but this is 
probably the main reason we R/Hers so love our ship):

Here's one where Ron feeds Hermione the straight line: 

"And you could ask your parents if they know who Flamel is," said 
Ron. "It'd be safe to ask them." 

"Very safe, as they're both dentists," said Hermione. 


Here's one where they do a quick-fire Pat and Mike routine: 

Speaking quietly so tht no one else would hear, Harry told the other 
two about Snape's sudden, sinister desire to be a Quidditch referee. 

"Don't play," said Hermione at once. 

"Say you're ill," said Ron. 

"Pretend to break your leg," Hermione suggested. 

"Really break your leg," said Ron. 


Here's one where Hermione feeds Ron the straight line: 

"So you mean the Stone's only safe as long as Quirrell stands up to 
Snape?" said Hermione in alarm? 

"It'll be gone by next Tuesday," said Ron. 


All of the above were from PS/SS. Here is one from CoS, where 
Ron "wins" again: 

Most Potente Potions?" she repeated suspiciously, trying to take the 
note from Hermione; but Hermione wouldn't let go. 

"I was wondering if I could keep it," she said breathlessly. 

"Oh, come on," said Ron, wrenching it from her grasp and thrusting it 
at Madam Pince. "We'll get you another autograph. Lockhart'll sign 
anything if it stands still long enough." 


>From PoA: 

"No," said Hermione shortly. "Have either of you seen my copy of 
Numerology and Gramatica?" 

"Oh, yeah, I borrowed it for a bit of bedtime reading," said Ron, but 
very quietly. 


And one where Hermione gets the funny line: 

"I went to see Professor McGonagall this morning, just before 
breakfast. I've decided to drop Muggle Studies." 

"But you passed your exam with three hundred and twenty percent!" 
said Ron. 

"I know," sighed Hermione, "but I can't stand another year like this 
one...."<snip> 

"...Yeah, I've been thinking about them too," said Ron. "Harry, 
you've got to come and stay with us. I'll fix it up with Mum and Dad, 
then I'll call you. I know how to use the fellytone now --" 

"A telephone, Ron," said Hermione. "Honestly, *you* should take 
Muggle Studies next year...." 


In GoF, there are so many it's hard to choose. Here are a few of my 
favorites: 


"Come off it," said Ron, starting to laugh. "Durmstrang's got to be 
about the same size as Hogwarts -- how are you going to hide a great 
big castle?" 

"But Hogwarts is hidden," said Hermione, in surprise. "Everyone knows 
that... well, everyone who's read Hogwarts, A History, anyway." 

"Just you, then," said Ron. 


"You're eating again, I notice," said Ron, watching Hermione adding 
liberal amounts of jam to her toast too. 

"I've decided there are better ways of making a stand about elf 
rights," said Hermione haughtily. 

"Yeah... and you were hungry," said Ron, grinning. 


Here's a nice one: 

"Well, at least the skrewts are small," said Ron as they made their 
way back up to the castle for lunch an hour later. 

"They are now," said Hermione in an exasperated voice, "but once 
Hagrid's found out what they eat, I expect they'll be six feet long." 

"Well, that won't matter if they turn out to cure seasickness or 
something, will it?" said Ron, grinning slyly at her. 

"You know perfectly well I only said that to shut Malfoy up," said 
Hermione. "As a matter of fact I think he's right. The best thing to 
do would be to stamp on the lot of them before they start attacking 
us all." 


Ah, I'm having to leave such good ones out -- there are too many. The 
bouncing ferret one, the Cedric/Lockhart one... But I can't leave 
this one out: 


"Hello," she said, "I've just finished!" 

"So have I!" said Ron triumphantly, throwing down his quill. 

Hermione sat down, laid the things she was carrying in an empty 
armchair, and pulled Ron's predictions toward her. 

"Not going to have a very good month, are you?" she said sardonically 
as Crookshanks curled up in her lap. 

"Ah well, at least I'm forewarned," Ron yawned. 

"You seem to be drowning twice," said Hermione. 

"Oh am I?" said Ron, peering down at his predictions. "I'd better 
change one of them to getting trampled by a rampaging hippogriff." 

"Don't you think it's a bit obvious you've made these up?" said 
Hermione. 

"How dare you! said Ron, in mock outrage. "We've been working like 
house-elves here!" 

Hermione raised her eyebrows. 

"It's just an expression!" said Ron hastily. 


That is some top-quality bantering there! Notice how they've improved 
in both quality and length since the first book? For only fourteen, 
especially. And, look, it continues: 


"Not spew," said Hermione impatiently. "It's S-P-E-W. Stands for the 
Society for the Protection of Elvish Welfare." 

"Never heard of it," siad Ron. 

"Well, of course you haven't," said Hermione briskly, "I've only just 
started it." 

"Yeah?" said Ron in mild surprise. "How many members have you got?" 

"Well -- if you two join -- three," said Hermione. 

"And you think we want to walk around wearing badges saying 'spew,' 
do you?" said Ron. 


If JKR intends Hermione to end up with Harry, she should NOT be 
giving her this kind of chemistry with Ron. Listen to the timing on 
this one: 


"What's that?" said Ron, pointing at a large dish of some sort of 
shellfish stew that stood beside a large steak-and-kidney pudding. 

"Bouillabaisse," said Hermione. 

"Bless you," said Ron. 

"It's French," said Hermione. "I had it on holiday summer before 
last. It's very nice." 

"I'll take your word for it," said Ron, helping himself to black 
pudding. 


Here's one where Hermione gets the last word: 

"But I had my wand hidden up my sleeve," he assured Padma Patil, who 
seemed to be a lot keener on Ron now that he was getting so much 
attention and was making a point of talking to him every time they 
passed in the corridors. "I could've taken those mer-idiots any time 
I wanted." 

"What were you going to do, snore at them?" said Hermione waspishly. 


And one for Ron: 

"Aren't you two ever going to read Hogwarts, A History?" 

"What's the point?" said Ron. "You know it by heart, we can just ask 
you." 


And another one for Hermione: 

You can't Disapparate on the Hogwarts grounds, haven't I told you 
enough times?" said Hermione. 

"Okay... how's this for a theory," said Ron excitedly. "Krum attacked 
Crouch -- no, wait for it -- and then Stunned himself!" 

"And Mr. Crouch evaporated, did he?" said Hermione coldly. 

"Oh yeah..." 


There are more, but obviously this post is way too long already. 


Angua