Banter and other SHIP subjects

[pippin_999 <foxmoth@qnet.com>]

No: HPFGUIDX 50493

Speaking of whether the first encounters for R/H, H/G have any 
plot significance, I asked:

> <<<<Or do you mean, she had it worked out, but didn't intend 
anything  in the first book to  indicate  future romantic 
possibilities,  in  which case, with this reader, she failed 
miserably.>>>>>>>

Penny:
> Pippin, that analysis only works if you buy R/H and/or H/G, 
which I do not.  <g>  Your read of PS/SS would comport with a 
R/H & H/G ending.  Mine would not.  But, I do seriously doubt that 
she *intended* to convey a destiny for those two couples in PS, 
even if that is how it will turn out.  <<<<

Perhaps you aren't familiar with the screen-writing term "cute 
meet" ? One of the  things I was taught in my basic 
screen-writing class was that the romantic-comedy couple 
should meet under embarrassing/amusing/unlikely 
circumstances. I think searching for a toad qualifies, as does 
acting half one's age. Arranging for a cute meet between your 
characters is a signal  that romance is to come, and part of the 
fun, of course, is that the  characters haven't a clue about it.

 On the way  to Hogwarts, Harry meets seven males (Ron, Fred, 
George, Draco, Crabbe, Goyle and Neville, not counting 
Scabbers/Pettigrew) and three females (Molly, Hermione, and 
Ginny) only two of whom are eligible. Ron meets exactly one, and 
she's looking for a toad. Whether Rowling plans to observe the 
"cute meet" convention here or stand it on its head, she's 
obviously not ignoring it. 

Penny:

>> I truly don't think she's going to send a message that two sets 
of teenagers can essentially be set up for life at age 17/18, with 
the foundation for their destiny laid out at age 11 (or 10 in the 
case of Ginny).  The simple reality of contemporary life is that 
teenage romances transitioning into successful healthy 
marriages is rare and becoming even more rare with every 
passing year.  The divorce statistics in the UK are particularly 
alarming from what I understand.  <<

I admit the divorce statistics are alarming, and as the mother of a 
teen myself, I am concerned about them. But the teen marriage 
failure rates  include *all*  marriages with partners under the age 
of twenty. I believe, and please correct me if I am wrong, that if 
you look solely at  couples who are eighteen and older, high 
school graduates, not pregnant at the time of the marriage, not 
poor, and not fleeing an abusive situation, things begin to look 
much brighter.

I fully expect that Ron will no longer be poor at the end of Book 
Seven. We have JKR's word that Hermione will not get pregnant 
at Hogwarts. And I certainly expect all the survivors to finish 
school, including Ginny, which means that if an H/G marriage 
takes place, it will be in the epilogue. Besides that, I don't think 
JKR is obligated to have a character pop up and explain that 
early marriages are hazardous any more than she has to have 
all the Quidditch players wear helmets. We may get more details 
on why the Riddle Sr. marriage failed. That should be cautionary 
enough, ie, don't try this at home or you may end up dead and 
your orphan child will grow up to be an evil Overlord.


Me:
> <<<<<I don't really see how, if the story does end R/H, anyone 
> who's cognizant of the ending will be able to read PS/SS and 
not  see authorial indications of potential attraction. Note that
it's  attraction I'm talking about, not liking or love.>>>>>>>

Penny:
> I don't *see* any attraction there.  None.  They *hate* each 
other (Ron and Hermione that is).  Harry is very embarrassed by 
Ginny's display of hero-worship.<<

See above. I didn't say attraction, I said "authorial indications of 
potential attraction." Perhaps I should have said "narrative" 
instead of "authorial."  I'm not claiming to read JKR's mind <g> 
BTW, where  in PS/SS do you see signs that Harry is 
embarrassed by Ginny's behavior?

Penny:
>The only thing I know is that Neil Murray bears a rather striking 
resemblance to what an adult Harry Potter might look like.  <eg> 
<

Um, you wouldn't be implying that because he *looks* like Harry 
Potter, he must *act* like Harry Potter? That would be judging a 
person according to appearance. That, as we all know, is a very 
evil despicable thing to do, which no right-thinking H/H 'er can 
condone or forgive.  Right? <vbveg>

 Sorry about the sarcasm, but that's the other thing. You see, we 
sarcastic people know that sarcasm has to be practiced 
constantly. Yes, sharp wits must be honed. In fact we, um, well, 
we sort of *enjoy* being sarcastic, you see. So we think that 
when Hermione goes acid, well, she gets a charge out of it, just 
like we would.

Of course, sometimes she and Ron go too far. They hurt each 
others feelings. We see what they do about it in the first three 
books. They stop speaking, then make up. That's part of the 
normal process of courtship--learning each others' limits. So is 
disillusionment and reconciliation.  But something very 
interesting happens in GoF. 

For the first time, Harry isn't there for the  reconciliation. 
*Something* must have happened, because one minute Ron 
and Hermione are standing ten feet apart and screaming, and 
the next morning--well, I'll let Harry tell it:

====
Ron and Hermione seemed to have reached an unspoken 
agreement not to discuss their argument. They were being quite 
friendly to each other, though oddly formal.
=====

Oh, that 'seemed' -- that covers a multitude of assumptions, 
doesn't it. We'd know a lot more about the status of Ron and 
Hermione's relationship if we knew what had  *really*  
happened. Did he apologize? Did she forgive? Did he? Did Ron, 
in fact, do what Ebony accuses him of lacking the magnaminity 
to do, and wish Hermione *bon chance*  with Krum? 

It seems likely enough to me. He doesn't react, except to sound 
rather hopeful about the Giant Squid, when Hermione's looking 
at Krum in his bathing suit. He doesn't even react when, later, in 
the Second Task, Krum is picking Rita out of Hermione's hair. 
He doesn't seem to be one of the people teasing her about 
being the person Krum would miss most. 

It does bother him, of course, as we find out in Potions. But 
Hermione doesn't see him grinding his pestle, because *she's 
not looking at him,* and it's clear from the narration that Ron is 
unaware of what he's doing. Obviously, he'd really like to know 
whether she decided to go to Bulgaria. But after she makes it 
clear she's not going to tell him, he never brings it up again. That 
is very different from when he wanted to know who was taking 
her to the ball.

Or, and I guess this is the H/H assumption, did Hermione just 
swallow her pride for Harry's sake on Boxing Day? Putting that in 
black and white, I can't believe it. In fact, I'll go further. If she
did that, Harry can have her. She's not good enough for my 
Ron.<g>


Pippin