SHIP: Re: Banter and other SHIP subjects

[blauemeanies <cmsore@wm.edu>]

No: HPFGUIDX 50623

> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "derannimer 
<susannahlm at y...>" 
> <susannahlm at y...> wrote:
> 
> So let me set out a problem for you. 
> 
>--------
> 
> FIRST of all, I think we can probably *all* agree that Ron does 
> enjoy 
> (most of the time) his arguments with Hermione. 
> 
> Okay?
> 
> SECOND, I *think* we can probably all agree on one fairly obvious 
> statement: either Hermione *does* enjoy her exchanges with Ron, or 
> she *doesn't.* 
> 
> Right?
> 
> Duh. 
> 
> THIRD. Now. If Hermione does enjoy the. . . well, you'd call 
> it "bantering," and I'd call it "bickering," so let's just call 
> it "The Exchanges." Okay? 
> 
> Right. 
> 
> As I was saying, I think we can probably all agree that if Hermione 
> *does* enjoy The Exchanges, then The Exchanges *are not* a problem. 
> (Though they are still evidently unpleasant for other people to 
> listen to, so Ron and Hermione might want to tone it down a bit.) 
> If 
> both Hermione and Ron do enjoy The Exchanges (TE), then TE are 
> simply 
> a good-natured facet of a very frank and open relationship. Then TE 
> are a *positive* thing in their relationship. 
> 
> So that is the R/H position on TE. 
> 
> So on to FOURTH: I think we can probably all agree that if Hermione 
> *doesn't* enjoy TE, then TE *are* a problem. If Ron enjoys TE and 
> Hermione doesn't, then TE are a manifestation of some. . . 
> *disconnect,* some lack of understanding, in their relationship. 
> Then 
> TE are a *negative* thing in their relationship. 
> 
> So that is the H/H position on TE.  
> 
> So then, if Hermione enjoys TE (R/H), then they are a positive 
> thing. 
> If Hermione does not enjoy TE (H/H), then they are a negative 
> thing.  
> 
> Right? Right. 
> 
> Now I *know* why I believe that Hermione doesn't enjoy them: it's 
> the 
> reason that Penny put forward a few posts back. 
> 
>If [JKR] continues to stress words 
>like "savagely," "impatiently," "sputtered 
>indignantly," "acidly," "coldly," "angrily," etc., she might give 
>us  the impression that Ron and Hermione really don't interact 
> very 
>positively during their "bantering."  
>  Derannimer (who means it. *Honestly,* can't we agree on *anything* 
> here?)
 
I guess, for me, part of the reason I think Hermione does like "The 
Exchanges" is because, to me, her basic personality is an abrasive 
one, quite possibly the second most abrasive one after Snape.  It is 
the type of personality that makes most people instinctively avoid 
hanging around with her.  She has a very clear "I-know-more-than-you-
do-so-you'd-better-just-do-it-my-way-now" type attitude towards 
everyone but teachers, who she still believes know more than her.  
She is a bossy know-it-all and stubborn and this leads her into 
conflict whether she likes it or not.  You can see it in her argueing 
with the House-elves and not listening (argueing with a sobbing 
Winky, jeesh).  You can see it in the cause of the Firebolt incident 
where the fact that she didn't even stop to share her suspicions and 
went straight to the teacher where I always get the feeling that this 
backstabbing element was a key cause to the fight (not the only, but 
key).  You can see it in her arguements with Harry (yes they mostly 
happen when Ron isn't there and Harry is under stress, but I'll get 
to it later).  Her blunt, slightly arrogant manner is one that 
invites confrontation rather strongly, and if confrontations such as 
the ones that she has in TE cause her very serious pain, I don't see 
her as being able to function happily in the world, and I'd like the 
characters to be happy.
 
I also see that she can't help and knows she can't help her 
abrasiveness.  To me, the reason she was crying in the bathroom is 
that she knows that not everyone likes her and that she rubs them the 
wrong way and she doesn't like it that way.  If she could be slightly 
more polite or reserved or less of a talking almanac and people would 
like her, she would.  She knows she's like this and she can't help 
it.  And that is why it is so important that she is continueing like 
this and that Ron and Harry are now her friends.  But there could be 
a slight undercurrent in the exchanges that could give her doubts 
with regards to Ron, that he still doesn't like her, which leads to 
some pain.  But it is also becoming highly obvious to both the reader 
and to Hermione that yes, yes he definitely does like her and this 
robs them of much or their sting and the only problem now is getting 
him to admit it.
 
But if she can't handle the teasing type of confrontation (and yes it 
is most assuredly teasing else why would he yell at Snape for calling 
her a bossy know-it-all when he calss her that sixteen times a day) 
that she gets from Ron, in my opinion she needs Neville and 
definitely not Harry.  Neville has shown many inclinations that he 
can be a relationship with such a dominating person and that, in a 
way, he derives some pleasure out of her leading him.  Maybe this 
comes from his feelings that he needs this help, that he truely is 
helpless, but he seems to really like it when she is a bossy-know-it-
all to him, and isn't annoyed by it at all.

I've always seen my reactions and Harry's as very similar when 
dealing with an abrasive personality like Hermione's, so I could be 
reading a lot more into it.  Smile, nod, grit your teeth and restrain 
yourself from snapping in their face (while, watching Ron engage 
in "The Exchanges" is an option he uses that I usually don't have).  
And he does an admirable job of the restraint, with the only 
exceptions being when Ron isn't around and he is under high stress 
and tells her (paraphrased because the books aren't here with me) 
to "shut up" and "when are you going to give up on this spew stuff", 
but this isn't a good situation for a romantic relationship if that 
is how he reacts to her personality.  And he will snap even if he 
tries to prevent it and when he does, it won't carry with it the 'aw, 
yeah, you're a know-it all, but you're kind of cute' quality I see in 
the exchanges. 
 
So in short, yes I can see how you can say Hermione *doesn't* like 
the exchanges, but if she *doesn't* like the exchanges when certain 
in the knowledge Ron likes her, she certainly will not be able to 
deal with Harry when they do fight and finding happiness will be 
rather hard for her.  I can see how you can construct an anti-R/Hr 
statement based on 'TE', but I don't think there is much of a door 
open for H/Hr afterwards either.  
 
Now, this isn't to say I don't like abrasive personalities.  I am a 
Snape fan, I love watching abrasive personalities interact with 
others (espacially when they deserve it), but I know when they 
interact with me frequently it's like sandpaper against the frontal 
lobe.  I can't blame her for it, I certainly find it entertaining to 
read, and I can see how I can sometimes get in how she usually is.  
It hust makes me like her more if I know she can take a tease.

bluemeanies <cmsore>