SHIPping For the Long Haul

[David <dfrankiswork@netscape.net>]

No: HPFGUIDX 50791

Jim Ferer wrote:
 
> That line of thinking calls up this question for R/Hers: are you
> R/Hers for a date or two or three, or even a whole school year, or 
are
> you in it for the long haul?  How do you define R/H victory?  It's
> important, because some of us may be debating very different 
things.

Yes, I agree that in shipping debates there is plenty of potential 
for confusion between what is seen as occurring in canon, and what 
may eventually happen post-canon.

My definition of R/H victory would simply be that the later books 
(OOP onward) make it beyond reasonable doubt that GOF (and POA) were 
indeed foreshadowing Hermione having an interest in Ron.  That would 
be entirely compatible with your position, which I think you 
describe as H/H.

> This H/Her believes that Ron and Hermione will probably date, maybe
> all year some year.  I know Ron likes Hermione, and Hermione is at
> least his friend, so I can cheerfully concede all the looks and 
nods
> and winks and punctuation marks we've been throwing around the last
> week or two.

Now this raises another area of hidden difference which may surface 
as disagreements that are more apparent than real.  That is, what do 
we understand by the nature of a 'ship'.

You see, I have a lot of trouble envisaging any of the 
trio 'dating'.   Perhaps it's a difference of language across the 
water, but I connote dating with the case where two people don't 
know each other very well at all, but have decided they want to know 
each other better.  I think H, H, and R are way past that.

I think the introduction of a romantic - 'eros' - element into 
either of Hermione's friendships in the trio ought to result in 
breaking the mould of what we understand by romance.  Thus for 
example we might see a tacit understanding between two of them that 
they have rights of interference in each other's lives and behaviour 
with no public declaration of being 'an item' or much physicality of 
behaviour.

That might mean that either camp in the fandom could claim victory  
under a scenario different from what seems often to be envisaged.

> I also think Ron and Hermione are wildly unsuited in the long run.

Now this is the essence of why I don't go along with the H/H case as 
often put forward: that post-canon they are suited.  I have three 
objections, in order of increasing radicality:

How can a third party know whether a couple are 'suited' for each 
other in advance?

How can you predict from teens what the adult will be?

Given that one *has* determined under some definition that two 
people are 'suited', why is that a good thing for them?

These questions are equally applicable to those who see H/R as a 
long term suited couple, of course.

For me there is no 'long haul', therefore, that is sensible to talk 
about, just random speculation.  Professor Trelawney, bless her, is 
living proof of that.

And in terms of fictional characters, I feel that there may be more 
to be done on working out the implications of the fact that so many 
of the great fictional romances are tragic.
 
David