SHIPping For the Long Haul

[Erica <cymru1ca@yahoo.ca>]

No: HPFGUIDX 50820

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "David <dfrankiswork at n...>" 
<dfrankiswork at n...> wrote:
> Jim Ferer wrote:
>  
> > That line of thinking calls up this question for R/Hers: are you
> > R/Hers for a date or two or three, or even a whole school year, 
or 
> are
> > you in it for the long haul?  How do you define R/H victory?  It's
> > important, because some of us may be debating very different 
> things.
> 
> Yes, I agree that in shipping debates there is plenty of potential 
> for confusion between what is seen as occurring in canon, and what 
> may eventually happen post-canon.
> 
> My definition of R/H victory would simply be that the later books 
> (OOP onward) make it beyond reasonable doubt that GOF (and POA) 
were 
> indeed foreshadowing Hermione having an interest in Ron.  That 
would 
> be entirely compatible with your position, which I think you 
> describe as H/H.
> 
> > This H/Her believes that Ron and Hermione will probably date, 
maybe
> > all year some year.  I know Ron likes Hermione, and Hermione is at
> > least his friend, so I can cheerfully concede all the looks and 
> nods
> > and winks and punctuation marks we've been throwing around the 
last
> > week or two.
> 
> Now this raises another area of hidden difference which may surface 
> as disagreements that are more apparent than real.  That is, what 
do 
> we understand by the nature of a 'ship'.
> 
> You see, I have a lot of trouble envisaging any of the 
> trio 'dating'.   Perhaps it's a difference of language across the 
> water, but I connote dating with the case where two people don't 
> know each other very well at all, but have decided they want to 
know 
> each other better.  I think H, H, and R are way past that.
> 
> I think the introduction of a romantic - 'eros' - element into 
> either of Hermione's friendships in the trio ought to result in 
> breaking the mould of what we understand by romance.  Thus for 
> example we might see a tacit understanding between two of them that 
> they have rights of interference in each other's lives and 
behaviour 
> with no public declaration of being 'an item' or much physicality 
of 
> behaviour.
> 
> That might mean that either camp in the fandom could claim victory  
> under a scenario different from what seems often to be envisaged.
> 
> > I also think Ron and Hermione are wildly unsuited in the long run.
> 
> Now this is the essence of why I don't go along with the H/H case 
as 
> often put forward: that post-canon they are suited.  I have three 
> objections, in order of increasing radicality:
> 
> How can a third party know whether a couple are 'suited' for each 
> other in advance?
> 
> How can you predict from teens what the adult will be?
> 
> Given that one *has* determined under some definition that two 
> people are 'suited', why is that a good thing for them?
> 
> These questions are equally applicable to those who see H/R as a 
> long term suited couple, of course.
> 
> For me there is no 'long haul', therefore, that is sensible to talk 
> about, just random speculation.  Professor Trelawney, bless her, is 
> living proof of that.
> 

I think that, for some, the 'ship they 'sail' has to due with a 
visceral reaction to the pairing (they're suited/not suited), for 
others it's based on their interpretation of the canon (frequency 
with with Hermione blushes in Ron's presence as opposed to 
Harry's ...) and for most it is, perhaps, a combination of the two.

Viscerally:

I *don't like* R/H (the romance not the individuals).  I'd say that 
H/H is my favourite but ... Hr/Neville? Hr/Draco? H/Cho? etc ...  
they're fine with me too.

Canonically:

I think most would agree that Ron does indeed show signs of having 
romantic feelings for Hermione, but is that enough to diagnose a R/H 
relationship at some future point?  

There are certain things that we *know* to be true (to date) in 
canon :  Viktor has romantic feelings for Hermione, Harry has 
romantic feelings for Cho, Harry does *not* have romantic feelings 
for Ginny, Ginny has romantic feelings for Harry and, of course, 
Ron's inclination towards Hermione.

Hermione's feelings (IMHO) are more ambiguous.  She may or may not 
suspect that Ron has *feelings* for her but I think that it is 
unclear what, if anything, she feels for him.  I certainly don't 
believe that Hemrione is schooled in artifice - she's not leading 
Krum on or using him to force Ron to 'show his hand' so to speak.  I 
think that Hermione is genuinely intrigued by Viktor Krum, the first 
boy/man who's ever declared a depth of (romantic) feeling for her.  I 
think that she is, perhaps, still working out what she feels for him, 
gratitude and 'friendly' affection or something more, and may explore 
that avenue further.  I've always thought that Hermione ultimately  
did accept Krum's invitation but was worried about Ron's reaction and 
that perhaps her *smile* at the end of GoF (when Ron asks Krum for 
his autograph) was relief that Ron had apparently "gotten over" his 
antipathy for Krum.  

However, this isn't to say that Hermione will remain with Viktor.  
It's possible that she'll realise that she *doesn't* return his 
feelings and perhaps re-evaluate her feelings for Ron or Harry.
I include Harry because, though I do appreciate the many arguments 
made for R/H,  there remain things that bother me about the R/H 
assumption - in the niggling, there-has-got-to-be-more-to-it kind of 
way.  There is always some sort of misdirection/foreshadowing 
surounding Harry, either with his adversaries, his abilities, his 
history, etc. - why should his friendships (the trio dynamic) be 
exempt from it.

For example:

It was Hermione's voice that Harry heard calling to him when he 
experienced his first (and last) Veela effect.  Is there any 
significance to this?  Why her and not say, Ginny or Mr. Weasley or 
one of the other Weasleys?  It may seem inocuous but then again who 
gave any significance to the pleasant little convo. Harry had with 
the Brazilian Boa in PS?

Erica