House points and Dumbledore (Re: Snape and respect)

[pippin_999 <foxmoth@qnet.com>]

No: HPFGUIDX 51164

Tom:

>>I'm not sure that that's how Quidditch points work - i.e. that 
they translate exactly to the House Cup - and that means I'm 
dubious that Harry could have easily won that final 160 points in 
a Quidditch game. 
<snip>
In fact, if anyone has any canon on this, I'd appreciate it, since I 
can't find anything, anywhere, to indicate exactly how winning the 
Hogwarts "Quidditch Cup" relates to winning the Hogwarts 
"House Cup."<<

I can't tell if the relationship was exact, but it can be established 
that Gryffindor was in reach of the lead before Harry went after 
the Stone, and that the Quidditch Cup point margin has a 
bearing on the House Cup.

PS/SS ch. 16 McGonagall: "If I hear you've come anywhere near 
here again, I'll take another fifty points from Gryffindor! Yes, 
Weasley, from my own house!"

ibid Harry: "Losing points doesn't matter any more, can't you 
see? Do you think he'll leave you and your families alone if 
Gryffindor win the House Cup?"


PS/SS ch. 17 " The points are all in and Slytherin won, of 
course--you missed the last Quidditch match, we were 
steamrollered by Ravenclaw without you--"

PoA ch 22. "Gryffindor House, meanwhile, thanks largely to their 
spectacular performance in the Quidditch Cup, had won the 
House Championship for the third year running."

Eileen:

>>>Do you really think Gryffindor played without a
seeker? Why would they do this? Surely, someone played
seeker. Just not someone who was properly trained. 

Should I ask why Wood didn't see fit to train a proper
reserve seeker? <<<

I"ve never heard that theory before. I don't think it holds up. Wood 
is desperate, not cliquish when he accepts Harry for the team. 
He doesn't  test Harry's abilities before taking him on, as he 
would if there were any competition. The position of Seeker in 
particular is highly dangerous, it requires the purchase of a very 
expensive piece of specialized sports equipment and Quidditch 
in general takes a lot of time that could be devoted to other 
pursuits, like studying. I'm sure *my* parents wouldn't have let 
me play. <g> 

Eileen:
>>(As does the fact that all these chasers come from one
year and that Lee Jordan referred to Alicia Spinnet as
a good friend of Wood's when introducing her in
PS/SS.)<<

Yellow flag! My copies of PS and SS both say that Alicia Spinnet 
is a good *find* of Oliver Wood's.  And where is the canon that all 
the Chasers are in the same year? 

Eileen:
>>Really, this is a game. Why should anyone be at fault
for Harry not being about to win, any more than the
team who wins the Stanley Cup  should feel bad about
the losing team's star player being injured and out of
the line-up? 

Where does morality come into this story?<<

PoA ch. 9: "Diggory got the Snitch," said George. "Just after you 
fell. He didn't realize what had happened. When he looked back 
and saw you on the ground, he tried to call it off. Wanted a 
rematch. But they won fair and square..."

GoF ch. 6 [Cedric speaking] "Harry fell off his broom, Dad," he 
muttered. "I told you...it was an accident..."

"Yes, but *you* didn't fall off, did you?" roared Amos genially, 
slapping his son on the back."Always modest, our Ced, always 
the gentleman...but the best man won, I'm sure Harry'd say the 
same, wouldn't you, eh?..."

And consider the much-too-long-to-quote Alphonse and Gaston 
routine in GoF where Cedric and Harry argue over who should 
take the Cup. The issue for both of them is not who should win 
according to The Rules, but which of them is "the best man."

The House Championship is supposed to teach witches and 
wizards to uphold the "noble history" of their houses. Part of that, 
it seems, is not using an advantage you didn't earn. The 
implication is clear that if Cedric had known that Harry had fallen, 
he wouldn't have and *shouldn't have* caught  the Snitch.

The Slytherins show bad form by a) not offering to cede the cup 
and b) gloating over their lead. 

Pippin