[HPforGrownups] OOP: Snape is still BAD

Tue Jul 1 05:46:15 UTC 2003

No: HPFGUIDX 66351

From: "magicroxx" <magicroxx at yahoo.com>

> Okay, there seems to be a lot of Snape lovers out there, and I
> certainly can see the point to which you feel sorry for him. I have
> read the book 3 times now and I think I dislike him even more. I mean
> to have gone through something so horrible, to live a life so
> terrible and then to add to the misery of someone who's life is so
> much worse than yours. Think about Snape in terms of Harry, what
> justifications does he have then? NONE.
>
> Snape lived a miserable life, he had a horrible childhood with an
> abusive father.

 I used to think the same way about kids who grow up in abusive homes.  They
grow up in a horrible environment, seeing and experiencing terrible things
whether it's actions done to them or to the other parent.  I always thought
that they would be the last people to grow up and abuse their own spouse or
children, but research shows that the odds that an abuser was himself or
herself abused in childhood are high.  There is a correlation to seeing
and/or experiencing abuse in one's childhood and that same kid growing up to
be an abuser.  With this in mind and with what we have been shown to date
about Snape's past, it is somewhat understandable why he seems to be prone
to it himself.  Not trying to condone his actions, but just explain them a
little bit.  After all, as we keep hearing, it's our choices that determine
who we are, and we know that Harry has chosen to behave otherwise.  As do
some kids who have grown up with some sort of abuse in their house.

> He was a loner at school and nobody really liked him.
> (I don't think it was just because he 'existed'. I can think of a few
> good reasons, one being that he called Lily a mudblood. He didn't
> say "I don't want help from a girl" he said MUDBLOOD. What a horrible
> thing to say!! (think about that situation and someone using the
> **N** word)
>
I really don't think we know enough of the typical everyday relationship
between James and Snape.  We see one snapshot out of seven years.  I don't
want to turn this into another debate about the bullying, but I do want to
add one thing here. This is regarding Snape using the term Mudblood.

When I was twelve, I had to put up with a lot of teasing, name-calling, and
ridicule at school.  This was exacerbated with people trying to beat me up
quite often after school after we'd gotten off the bus.  I know what it's
like to live with this day in and day out.  I did my best to not respond to
the taunts, and in the fights only did what was necessary to defend myself.
One day when I was twelve, I was walking down the hall, and a girl I
especially did not like started making comments.  Normally I ignored this
sort of thing, but that day I had had enough.  She made me furious.  I ended
up turning around and spitting out, "Shut up, you b****!"  For the record,
those words shocked me as much as it did her because that was the first time
I had ever used that word or sworn in general.

I offer this personal story to illustrate what might have been going on with
Snape a little more clearly.  We know he was furious, spouting out swear
words and hexes like crazy (when he wasn't choking).  As is pointed out
above, he might have found it even more humiliating to have a girl be the
one to try to help him.  My point here is, maybe he normally wouldn't have
used this term that is considered to be horribly racist in the Wizarding
World, but in this situation of extreme distress and in a fit of fury, it
comes out.

A couple other things I'd like to add, before people begin to think that I'm
saying Snape was blameless in this.  I do think that Snape was not afraid to
hex James whenever possible, and may have even bullied James at one time.
After all, he *did* run around with a bunch of Slytherins at one point, and
many speculate they might have been older (Lucius).  And returning briefly
to my story, I say that I had never actually used the B word before.  But in
my mind, I did think of this girl as one.  I just never had actually called
her it before, either to her face or behind her back.  Snape may not have
normally uttered the M word, but that does not mean that in his mind (or
even with the mysteriously absent Slytherin friends) he didn't think of Lily
as a Mudblood.

I apologize for the personal sidetrip, but I saw it as the best way of
answering this portion, since this is what I think of when I read these
discussions on Snape using the M word.

> Harry never knew his parents and yes I think this may be better than
> Snape's childhood. Snape however didn't grow up with the Dursleys. Do
> you know how big a cupboard under the stairs is? Being chased up a
> tree. We all know the points where Harry's life has been miserable.
> Yes, he is still kool, yes he is famous. You would think though, that
> we would have seen a Harry that maybe hates muggles for the way he
> was treated, or some other serious downfall, but we don't.
>
See above.  He chose not to be like Snape or like Tom Riddle.  I think this
choice will be crucial later on in the series, since much is made of Harry's
positive emotions, especially love.

> Also, its not like Snape doesn't know all this, he saw harry's
> memories. Their lives were both horrible and never does Snape ever
> say "Gee, I guess this kid's life isn't all peachy" Instead he clings
> to his petty childhood hatred. He never seperates James from Harry
> and he is completely oblivious to the way he effects people. He has a
> completely WARPED sense of morality. I am sure Snape has done some
> terrible things and we can only begin to imagine.
>
Snape did notice that Harry's life wasn't all roses.  Some have even
speculated that it did even affect him slightly once.  Here's the section
from OOP:
"That last memory," said Snape.  "What was it?"
"I don't know," said Harry, getting wearily to his feet.  He was finding it
increasingly difficult to disentangle separate memories from the rush of
images and sound that Snape kept calling forth.  "You mean the one where my
cousin tried to make me stand in the toilet?"
"No," said Snape softly.  (OOP US ed. p. 590)

Some people speculate that the way he says No here is indicative of him
having some empathy for the life that Harry has led.  I myself do not know
if I'm completely ready to jump on that bandwagon.  I felt it had to be
mentioned, though.  Either way, if there was a slight bit of empathy for
Harry and all from Harry's memories, it was buried when Snape found Harry in
his Pensieve.  I do agree, though, that Snape has extreme difficulty
separating James and Harry in his mind.  On the other hand, I don't think he
is completely oblivious to the affect he has on people.  On the contrary, I
think he enjoys the feeling of power he has over others.  And I, too, am
wondering what atrocities Snape has committed in his past, and what made him
turn?  Yes, I do think he's honestly trying to atone for his sins, but he
has a long way to go.

> Most IMPORTANTLY though, in the webcast interview, JK says that all
> the people who like Snape and Draco are scary. (well not exactly, I
> am paraphrasing) BUT, she says the reason Snape never got the DADA
> job was because Dumbledore thought it would bring out the worst in
> him. She said, don't feel too sorry for Snape, he is definitely worth
> keeping your eyes on.

IIRC, she said those who were dressing up as Draco had her concerned.  She
thought that people were starting to like him too much, and that scared her.
We aren't supposed to like him too much.  As for Snape, she said that we
shouldn't feel too sorry for him because of things in later books.  I don't
remember if this last had to do with things we *find out* in later books,
which would cover what he did as a DE, or things that he *will do* in later
books, which would hint at some terrible thing he has not done yet.  If it
is the former, I don't think I'll be too surprised because I never have
labored under the illusion that he could be a DE and not have done at least
one thing that was truly horrible.  If it is the latter, I could be
surprised because I truly think he is no longer with Voldemort.  One thing
that came to mind, though, is that he may have to use the Cruciatus Curse on
either Harry or Dumbledore at one point.  We would not be fond of Snape if
he did this, but yet this could be something he might have to do so as not
to blow his cover, and it does not involve outright killing.

No matter what becomes of our dear old Severus Snape, I will definitely be
keeping my eyes on him and watching his development with great interest.

Kelly Grosskreutz
http://www.idcnet.com/~ivanova