MadEye & Malfoy - James & Snape - Everyone & Umbridge

[Tom Wall]

No: HPFGUIDX 68241

Darrin wrote, in reply to my Tom's previous post:
If three Slytherin had risked their lives going to get the 
Philosopher's Stone and one other Slyth had tried to stop them, 
risking his safety in the process, perhaps D-Dore would have given 
them the same number of points [that he awarded Harry, Ron and 
Hermione.]

And considering that the recorded contributions the Slytherins made 
toward the Chamber of Secrets was taunting every Muggle-born student 
with promised death, I think D-Dore can be forgiven for not giving 
them points for it. Just a thought.

Tom responds:
Perhaps he would have been fair if it had been Slytherin students 
making the effort. Perhaps not. Either way, we couldn't possibly 
know. What we do know is that he gave them a disproportionate amount 
of points and enabled Gryffindor to steal the house cup twice in a 
row.


Darrin continued:
Undermining the entire process? Sheesh, you make it sound like the 
very foundation of Hogwarts sunk a foot into to ground over it.

Tom replied:
This line made me chuckle. ;-) 

I guess I was thinking here about what Ernie Macmillan said about 
the Inquisitorial Squad's point-taking power undermining the prefect 
system. When the headmaster of the school personally steps in and 
rewards so many points (at the last minute) to the house in last 
place, and thereby enables that house to win the House Cup two years 
in a row, yes, I call that undermining the process. It definitely 
undermines the integrity of the Point system. 

And the students know it, too. That's why Malfoy, at the end of GoF, 
says something to the effect of `Big Deal. So Potter's Dumbledore's 
favorite boy again.' Harry *is* Dumbledore's favorite boy, and 
everyone knows it, including us. *That's* my point.


Darrin added:
And, since you're so on about McGonagall's favoring rule-breaking 
and awarding points to her own house, it should be noted for the 
record that McGonagall took away 150 points, which, as it turns out, 
was around one-third a year's total, from her own house, while only 
taking 20 points away from Slytherin.

Tom replies:
Yep, I totally concur. I never said that McGonagall wasn't tough. I 
said she could be easily read as showing favoritism. They're not 
contradictory statements, after all. One can be tough and still show 
favoritism.


Darrin wrote:
Yes, Crabbe and Goyle somehow manage to pass Potions, despite having 
the combined IQs of cork. And we are clearly told that many other 
potions besides Harry's are poor, yet Harry is singled out.

Tom replies:
Yes, you're right, he is singled out. But on that note, how many 
other students are as disrespectful of Snape as Harry is? None that 
I can come up with... so, in many respects, Harry singles himself 
out.


Darrin wrote:
It is canon that Snape dislikes Harry because of James, and what 
James and company did. You can't get much more unprofessional as a 
teacher, than to hold a student responsible for something his father 
did before the child was even born.

Tom replies:
Well, let's take a look at this example here:

It's *not* okay for Snape to treat Harry like an arrogant celebrity-
monger because of his father. So, is it therefore okay for Harry to 
get the special treatment he gets from the other teachers (and 
Dumbledore) who *liked* James and Lily so much? Or, is it okay for 
Harry to get special treatment from the other teachers who feel bad 
for what happened to him when he was a baby? 

Are you saying that Snape is wrong for using the past to judge Harry 
presently, or are you saying that *any* teacher who does this, (pre-
judging Harry in any way,) is wrong for it? Or are you suggesting 
that certain pre-judgments are acceptable and certain others are not?


Darrin listed examples of Snape losing his temper:
The screaming at Harry to thank him on bended knee (PoA); insulting 
the appearance of a student who happens to be a friend of Harry's in 
front of her peers (GoF); the physical assault in OoP; the 
completely unprofessional bushwhacking of a fellow teacher by 
revealing his secret (PoA); teaching a student to use a snake-spell, 
with the apparent intent of giving that student an unfair advantage 
(CoS).

Tom replies:
Insulting Hermione in GoF is *not* the same thing as losing one's 
temper. Neither is Lupin's ouster as a werewolf an example of a loss 
of temper. 

Neither is teaching a student a spell, and on that one, Darrin, I'm 
surprised at you, you big canon buff. ;-) Please note that 
canonically, we *do not* know that Snape's whisper to Draco in `The 
Dueling Club' in CoS had anything to do with `serpensortia'. For all 
we know, Snape could have been commenting on Harry's hair or 
Lockhart's robes.

I totally agree with the outbursts in PoA and OoP, though. You're 
very right. Snape clearly loses his temper in those situations.


Darrin wrote:
You know why? Because Snape is an adult, allegedly. He SHOULD be 
held to a different standard. And scars that are 25 years old have 
more time to heal than wounds just days old.

I am tired of a teenager's behavior being compared to an adult's 
behavior as if they are supposed to be equal.
 
Tom remarks:
You're writing as though this is all taking place over coffee, or at 
the local bar, or as though it's some kind of childish spat on the 
playground or on the sidewalk. Should adults generally behave better 
than kids? Certainly. 

But this *isn't* an informal situation. Harry and Snape are BOTH 
accountable for their behavior, and because this is a FORMAL setting 
(i.e. school,) they *are* held to certain standards of 
professionalism. In the formal school setting, certain respect 
levels are commonplace, and apply to both students and teachers.

Harry is wrong to be so disrespectful of his teacher, because 
independently of the situational specifics, it is unacceptable for a 
student to be that rude to his teacher. He shouldn't get leeway on 
the matter. Act like a student. Likewise, his teacher is wrong to 
take out his frustrations on his student. And neither should Snape 
get leeway on the matter. Act like a teacher.

But I never suggested that Snape was in the *right.* I pointed out 
that the *other* teachers were in the *wrong,* and that most of us 
are willing to let *their* transgressions slide because they're "pro-
Harry" transgressions.


Darrin wrote:
And he, as an Occlumens, KNOWS how important it is for Harry to 
learn the lesson. I would have had no problem with him demanding an 
apology from Harry, demanding a detention, demanding absolute proof 
that Harry was practicing.

But to stop teaching? Unacceptable for a TEACHER.

Tom scoffs:
I have problems, in general, with Snape's attitude during this 
whole `let's learn Occlumency' session. Why? Because this isn't a 
school subject. This is work for the Order of the Phoenix. In MY 
opinion, Harry shouldn't have to call Snape `sir' during these 
sessions, because what he's learning has nothing to do with school - 
in fact, what he's learning detracts from valuable study time.

So, would it be unacceptable for Snape to refuse to teach Harry 
Potions? Yes. Occlumency, or any other unrelated OoP course of 
study? No. Again, IMO.


Darrin concludes:
Snape is biased because he prejudged a kid before he set foot on 
Hogwarts soil, simply because of who he looks like and whose blood 
runs in his veins.

Tom repeats:
Yes, it is wrong for Snape to have pre-judged Harry based on his 
past dealings with his father. But in that light, so is it also 
wrong for every teacher who liked James to give Harry special leeway 
because of it, and we all know that they do. Even Fudge did it in 
PoA. Harry constantly gets special treatment because of stuff in his 
past for which he's not responsible. Good treatment, and bad 
treatment.

Again, I'm not suggesting that Snape is in the right. What I'm 
pointing out is that *ALL* of the teachers do this stuff. It's just 
that the others usually apply their prejudices to Harry in a 
positive way, and so we tend to let it slide.

-Tom