[HPforGrownups] I Corinthians 13--random thoughts

[Sally Unchester]

No: HPFGUIDX 69165


Upon reading this post, it got me to thinking as well.   Perhaps you have the right idea with where this is going.  I don't think JKR is trying to "convert" anyone but your post makes sense.  If you remember in the prophecy that Dumbledore told Harry at the end of OOP, he said that one of them would have to die so as you said,my idea would be that  Harry would not only by his love for his friends but for his love for Dumbledore AND for his family....it shows that he had more love than anyone else. Tom Riddle was so cold hearted and Harry just seemed to be like ya know Tom you're not a bad guy and defeated him with his love in COS.  Dumbledore always said that he'd be there for someone when asked.  Harry may have become angry but he still loves Dumbledore so great speculation but not everyone has to agree with it either, I just do.
terryljames76 <terryljames at hotmail.com> wrote:
DISCLAIMER: I am not suggesting that JKR is drawing from the Bible 
for any of her work.  These are just some thoughts that occurred to 
me while I was reading this particular passage.  Neither am I 
suggesting that everyone else should make the same connections.  Any 
parallels I might draw are mine alone.  Nor am I comparing any of 
JKR's characters to any Biblical characters.  All that said,  for 
those of you who like to wonder and ponder....

There seems to be a consensus among the posters here that the 
mysterious power that Dumbledore referred to, that Harry has so much 
of, is love.  (Am re-reading OOP for the second time, but haven't got 
that far yet--apologies if I'm phrasing things incorrectly.)  I can't 
remember if that's ever specified, but that seems to be the general 
assumption.

With that in mind, here's a few thoughts about "The Love Chapter"--I 
Corinthians 13 (NIV).  This jumps all over the chapter.

The first thing that I noticed was verse 8.  "Love never fails.  But 
where there are prophecies, they  will cease ('fail', in some 
versions); where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there 
is knowledge, it will pass away."

Prophecy: Ron.  Also I thought of _the_ prophecy.
Tongues: Harry (Parseltongue)  Peeves even teases Harry by referring 
to him as "speaking in tongues".
Knowledge: Hermione

So all these gifts will prove to be of no effect in the end.  What 
will save the day is love.  

Verse 1:
"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I 
am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal."  Making a lot of 
noise, but not accomplishing much.  "Angels" is a bit off, but we get 
the point.  Harry again.  

Verse 2:
"If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all 
knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have 
not love, I am nothing."  Ron again.  Ron doesn't seem to know that 
he has this gift, but I think by now we all see it.   My question: 
why hasn't Hermione noticed this?

Verse 3:
"If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the 
flames, but have not love, I gain nothing."  Hermione again.  
Interesting that the other "set of three" refers to knowledge,  but 
this "set of three" refers to giving to the poor, which could include 
knitting for the house-elves.  The only one in the "set" that 
changes, still refers to Hermione.  

Verses 4-7:
"Love is patient, love is kind.  It does not envy, it does not boast, 
it is not proud.  It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not 
easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.  Love does not delight 
in evil but rejoices with the truth.  It always protects, always 
trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."

Oddly enough, the person who comes to mind here is Luna.  "Not easily 
angered, keeps no record of wrongs": she doesn't get upset that her 
belongings are "missing"; she doesn't plot revenge on the ones who 
took them; she just waits and trusts that they will be returned.   
She is not in any kind of angst over her mother; she trusts and hopes 
that she will see her again.  Her name, Lovegood, also connects her 
with this passage.

Verses 9-10:
"For we know in part, and we prophesy in part, but when perfection 
comes, the imperfect disappears." The NIV is a bit unclear 
here; "perfection" is better translated as "complete".  We know a 
little, and the prophecy refers to the little we know, but when we 
understand completely, we don't need the prophecy--the incomplete 
knowledge--anymore.  The prophecy is based on incomplete knowledge 
and could wind up meaning something completely different.  Which I 
think we all knew anyway, and would be disappointed if JKR doesn't 
have some kind of twist in mind.

Verse 11:
"When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I 
reasoned like a child.  When I became a man, I put childish ways 
behind me."  I think we saw a bit of that in OOP--the DA was a step 
in the right direction--but not nearly enough.  I do believe that 
Harry will be totally different by the end of Book 7.  I don't know 
if that's a good thing or not.  

Verse 12:
"Now we see but a poor reflection, as in a mirror; then we shall see 
face to face.  Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I 
am fully known."  The mirror of Erised; seeing people face to face in 
the Deadland; I won't even go there.  Insert your own fantastic 
speculation here.  I think by the end of the series, Harry will 
understand several people, including his parents, Dumbledore, and 
Snape, much more thoroughly, and they--Snape, in particular--will 
understand him better.  We've seen the first steps with that in the 
Occlumency lessons, with Snape going over Harry's memories.

Verse 13: 
"And now these three remain: faith, hope and love.  But the greatest 
of these is love."  We learned in the very first book (wasn't it?) 
that Lily's love had put a powerful protection on Harry.  Will love 
prove to be the undoing of Voldemort?  How?  Is this going to be a 
Terry Goodkind thing where Harry will have to love Voldemort in order 
to defeat him, or a Madeleine L'Engle thing where V. will be defeated 
by Harry's love for someone else? Is it going to be a Star Wars thing 
where, through the power of love, Voldemort will turn back into Tom 
Riddle before he dies?  (I still have that recurring nightmare: "You 
killed my father!"  "No, Harry...I AM your father...")

And what role will Luna play in this?  And Neville, who obviously 
loves his parents very much?  We see in OOP that Voldemort sees love 
as a weakness of others, to be used against them.  How will it all 
play out?

OK, Bible lesson over.  Feel free to pick it apart.

Terry LJ



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