Whose Man Snape?

[darrin_burnett]

No: HPFGUIDX 69631

Deranimer, in between filthy looks at me:

 

> Why didn't JKR just have *Rookwood,* who works, as we know from GOF 
and OOP, at the Department of Mysteries, tell Voldemort about the 
Prophecy? There is simply no reason to go through all of this 
rigamarole about a mysterious eavesdropper unless the mysterious 
eavesdropper is important for reasons *other* than the plot necessity 
of Voldemort's discovering about the existence of the Prophecy. 
> 
> I bet it's Snape. 

OK, not sure about the logic -- V-Mort is an arrogant sort. He might 
not have felt it was necessary to double-check the thing -- but let's 
assume for a minute that it IS someone important and that someone is 
Snape.

I can't think of anyone else who it could be right now, unless we get 
Evil!Someone!Else. (No, Pip, I don't want to play ESE!Lupin right 
now. Try Amanda)

> Can you *imagine* how Harry would react?

Just offhand, I'd say he'd do a better job on the Cruciatus Curse.

> Btw, as those who know me could perhaps have predicted, I am by no 
means weaving any of this into a Severus Snape Is Ever So Evil spec. 

Damn, and here I was popping the popcorn and getting ready to enjoy 
the show. 

> <Derannimer shoots a nasty look at Darrin.>
> 

<smoooooch>


> Trelawney's prediction was, what, more than a year before Voldemort 
>fell, right? There is absolutely no reason that Snape couldn't have 
>told the Prophecy -- or what he heard of it -- to Voldemort and then 
>switched sides. 

Ok, with you so far. Snape is evil. He sold out babies to V-Mort.

>Actually, at the moment my  preferred scenario is that he told 
>Voldemort the Prophecy, not knowing who the Prophecy would 
>eventually apply to; Voldemort, after a moment's swift thinking --
<snort> -- decides to go after the Potter's; Snape, because of Love 
>Of Lily or the life  debt to James or what have you, switches sides, 
>not just out of general guilt over his DE-hood, but also from 
>specific concern to try and avert some of the damage he  has set in 
motion. 

OK, throwing a bone. I posted a theory right after OoP came out that 
Snape was actually the one sent to snuff out Neville and he did it a 
few weeks or so before V-Mort went to the Potters. (Say, because V-
Mort didn't actually get to the Potters before Sirius made Peter the 
secret-keeper)

Anyway, the theory was that Snape couldn't kill Neville. Call it 
human weakness or whatever. (This is also my theory of why Neville is 
so scared of Snape, he's got a subconscious memory of Snape standing 
over his crib.)

But that is where Snape could have turned, and the general guilt or 
specific concern would apply.


> <Derannimer takes a moment to feel fond of Snape, then notices that 
people are looking at her strangely, and briskly continues.>

<mixes another drink while waiting for the fondness to pass, like a 
bad case of fog rolling through>



> Anyway, I think that a scenario like this would explain a great 
deal of Dumbledore's caginess with Harry over Snape's past. It isn't 
just that Harry has no real right to  know; Dumbledore is also 
concerned about letting Harry know because Snape's defection from the 
DE's is closely connected to the loss of Harry's parents.

I agree that Harry has no real right to know, yet. At some point 
though, Harry is going to need to know who is behind him in this 
battle, because now that we see the prophecy, it really is Harry's 
head in the noose more than any other.

> In more depth, I've been wondering a fair bit *why* JKR sets up 
this huge "he would  never forgive Snape, never" business. As Pip, I 
believe -- apologies if it was actually Pippin -- recently said, 
>Sirius's death has as much or more to do with giving Harry 
> another reason to hate Snape as it does with giving Harry another 
reason to hate  Voldemort. 

You see, this "he would never forgive Snape" is something I didn't 
take real seriously at all. It struck me as classic denial and 
projecting his own guilt feelings so he could get away from them for 
a bit.

Put it this way, I think Harry hating Snape over Sirius will fade 
away.

>But I do wonder *why* it's so important that Harry hate Snape, and 
>that  we know that Harry hates Snape. Because, although I've seen 
>some people describe Harry's relationship to Snape at the end of OOP 
>as basically a return to the status quo, it really represents, IMHO, 
>a huge, bad change in Harry's attitude. Because Harry never really 
>has *hated* Snape before. He's never really actively wished for his 
>ill. 

Again, I don't agree with what it means, so I'm not sure how much to 
go with this. And I still remember Harry's sympathy for Snape earlier 
in the book and I'm not sure it is just crushed and gone away.

He has just lost Sirius. I don't think we can take what he is feeling 
and base a great deal of predictions on it. I'm not prepared to say 
Harry's hate lasts for even half the next book.


And JKR really hits us over the head with it, doesn't she? "He was 
> never going to forgive Snape, never?" I think she's clearly setting 
that up for  something Big; and I don't think that a gradual process 
of coming out of denial is very Big. 
> 
> Or. . . Bangy.

True, but Bangy can be found elsewhere. But, I'm intrigued...
 

> So I started trying to think of possible reasons JKR really wanted 
Harry to hate Snape.
> 
> 1. The books are still to episodic to allow a big change in Harry 
and Snape's  relationship until Book Seven, and the end of the 
series. 
> I've seen this general idea expressed, but as I
> 
> A: Don't think it's accurate -- Harry and Snape's relationship 
*has* changed.

It depends on the goal. Back-slapping buddies? No, I'm convinced 
Snape is too emotionally stunted to ever accept the Son of Prongs 
fully. Understanding and respect? Perhaps.

Setting aside the B.S. for the common good? Ding-ding-ding-ding!

> 
> B: Don't want it to be accurate -- c'mon, JKR, surely you can do 
better than that!
> 
> I am going to discount it for now.


So am I. 



> 2. JKR wants the reader to retain the ability to distrust Snape.
> 
> Eh. She surely could have done that more easily by just giving him 
a suspicious subplot in a future book, wouldn't you think? And 
anyway, by *flagging* that Harry hates Snape, she makes us *less* 
likely to trust Harry's judgements about Snape, not 
> more so. Or she does me, at any rate.

You know what make distrust Snape even more? Not Harry's hate, but 
Hermione and Dumbledore's continual insistence that he is to be 
trusted.

It really is a "sheesh, why are you protesting so damn much?" vibe 
I'm getting.

I mean, we're setting up Hermione as this insightful oracle and 
Dumbledore is the Basil Exposition of the series and they keep 
insisting on Snape's good? 

Talk about Bangy.
 

 
> 3. It's a clever double bluff. The first four books she fooled us 
by having us trust Harry too much; now she's going to try and fool us 
by having us trust Harry too little. 
> In other words, Severus Snape Is Ever So Evil. Harry's going to 
spend the whole book -- Six or Seven, take your pick, but I'd pick 
Six, if I had to pick one of them -- but anyway, Harry's going to 
spend the whole book being suspicious of Snape, and we 
> readers, or,


Same kind of idea as what I'd said.

 
> <Derannimer shoots another nasty look at Darrin.>

<blows a kiss>


> 
> or *most* of us anyway, will be spending the whole book yelling at 
Harry to get overit already, Snape's not the bad guy, and Harry just 
thinks he is because he, Harry, hates him, Snape, a fact that JKR 
will have made very careful to continue hitting us 
> over the head with. 


pssst.... wanna hear a secret? If Harry goes through book 6 on a 
mindless "I hate Snape" rampage, I'm going to be saying "Get over it, 
kid, already."

 
> Then it will turn out that Harry was right.
> 
> (And Darrin.)
 
> Whoops.
> 
> (You think Derannimer is shooting nasty looks at Darrin *now*? Boy. 
You wait.)

And if any Snapeites find me totally obnoxious NOW, just wait if I'm 
proved right! Boy, you wait, indeed. 

 
> 4. JKR doesn't care so much about the readers retaining the ability 
to mistrust Snape; but she very much wants *Harry* to retain the 
ability to mistrust Snape. 
> 
> This one is fairly self-explanatory, I think. 


Sure.  




> 5. JKR is setting up Snape as a big moral challenge for Harry at 
some point in the series.
> 
> (I am indebted for this one to someone who wrote a post about it. I 
don't know who  this person was, and I'm not trying to find it now. 
But the post contained a line about how "Harry is heading down the 
path to the rocky precipice where he shouts 'The Ring is MINE!'" Post-
writer, you know who you are, I suppose. Thanks.)
I personally think that [4] and [5] combined are. . . well, not 
necessarily the best bet, but my favorite bet. I love the idea that 
Harry may face a moral challenge to do with 
> Snape at some point in the series -- again, I'm thinking Six. 
> 
> I also love the idea that he might fail it. Why, I'm not altogether 
sure. 
> 
> I rather suspect that it has something to do with Hurt-Comfort 
though.
> 
> But see, it becomes a lot more likely that Harry *will* fail it if, 
in addition to hating Snape, he also becomes persuaded at some point 
that Snape really is Up To No Good. 


Erggh. OK, let me go with this one.

I agree that if Harry blindly hates Snape, bad things could happen. 
Just as Snape couldn't let go enough to do his teaching duties, Harry 
can't get wrapped up in all this nonsense either.

Moral test? Ring is mine? All possible, but I still favor ESE!Snape.


> <Derannimer shrugs.>
> 
> No idea. Preferably something that involves Our Man Snape getting 
hit with a  Cruciatus or two, though. 

Ooooh... how fun! 



> Oh, and btw -- I fully expect Harry to forgive Snape at some point 
>now. Come on! You just *don't* have a character say that they are 
never going to forgive another character never unless they *are* 
going to forgive that other character at some point!
> 


You do realize that in order to be forgiven, one must apologize. So, 
Snape needs to do that as well. But, yeah, I can't see Book 7 coming 
and going without some kind of resolution here. 

Darrin