Hermione/Snape (OoP and a bit from PS/SS) also broom-bucking

[Sydney]

No: HPFGUIDX 69961


Okay, I guess I'll just sum up my position here, but I think I'm on a
completely different planet from Darrin and Shaun on this issue, and
no amount of reasoning is going to clear it up...

When last we left our saga, I wrote:

> >I don't see how the teeth remark can count as
> > evidence of serious malice unless Snape could anticipate it causing
> > serious, lasting harm.

And Shaun replied:
> 
> The point is, IMHO, that he should anticipate that possibility. Any 
> teacher should.

We're clearly never going to agree on this.  I don't think any
reasonable person, would anticipate the possibility of causing
serious, lasting harm to a thirteen-year-old from one nasty comment. 
I just don't.

To reiterate (me):
>  
> > It would suck to be Hermionie, or anybody, in that scene, but do you
> > honestly think we're talking about cataclysmic personality collapse
> > for the recepient here?  It would sting for a couple of days, they'd
> > complain to their friends, plot revenge, flash back to it once in blue
> > moon and seethe... but life-long damage?  Spiritually mutilated little
> > tykes barely able to drag themselves through life because of
> > Squeers-type mental torture? The sort of life-long damage that is
> > lusted after by TOTAL EVIL?!?  
> 
Shaun:

> No, I don't.
> 
> But I also don't think that's the point.
> 
> You don't assess the wrongness of an action, based on the targets 
> ability to resist it.

> 
> The fact is, though, I deal with kids who have suffered long term harm 
> as a result of this type of treatment. It does happen sometimes.

Well, the wrongness of an action, should be based on what a reasonable
person would anticipate normally being significantly harmful. 
Pinching someone is just not the same as stabbing them, despite the
rare instances of haemophiliacs who WOULD suffer long-term damage from
being pinched.  Snape would have assumed Hermionie was a normal girl,
not a fragile neurotic on the verge of a nervous breakdown, which, as
I said before, is the only sort of person for whom this would be a
cataclysmic event as opposed to a lousy day. 

Shaun wrote, regarding Hermionie's opinion of Snape:

> In 
> fact, I believe she'd be more likely to expect Snape to be fair than
Ron 
> would - especially if this is the girl some people are claiming has the 
> insight needed to more readily trust Snape in OotP.

I just think Herimonie is the kind of person who is aware that someone
can be a git in some situations and a hero in others.  I realize I'm
in a different position from Hermionie here, not being a fictional
character and all, but I don't have a problem thinking of Snape as
being both a git and a hero.  And I don't know the Thing that makes
Dumbledore trust him either.  I'm not saying I'm a picture of
reasonable sanity, but I'm just saying someone can, merely from the
information we have so far, make a positive judgement call on Snape's
character.

> 
> Do I think what he did was as bad as murder? No. But I do consider
it to 
> be equivalent to an assault.

I doubt a court of law would agree with you.  If the police started
going around arresting people for saying mean things, particularily in
a British public school, there'd be more people in jail than out of
it.  What Moody/Crouch did in the ferret incident, that WAS assult,
which is why, Darrin, *she says pointedly* I DON'T think the incidents
are remotely comparable.

And, from way back when, Darrin's original post on the topic:

>He insulted a student's appearance in front of her peers AND, most
>unforgivably, refused to get an injured student to medical attention.
>In the real world, he'd be facing disciplinary action, a possible
>lawsuit, and depending on the strength of the teacher's union and the
>guts of the school board, might be out of a job.

Geez, no wonder no one can make a move any more without getting sued.
 Is this really what happens in American schools?  All he did was fail
to say "Hospital wing, Granger".  If he'd made her sit through class
with the huge teeth, then you'd start having a point.  Suggesting he
"refused to get her medical attention" is warping what happened to a
really extraordinary degree.  

I'm starting to get the feeling, though, that talking to Darrin about
Snape, is rather like talking to Snape about Harry... *grin*


Sydney-- oh!  by the way, waaaaay back, Darrin wrote something along
the lines of "I don't see why the bucking-broom flashback is
interpreted as showing Snape's skills at counter-curses", or
something-- sorry, I can't find the post.  It just struck me that was
in relation to something I'd posted-- that now we know how Snape is
familiar with the counter-curse.

I merely meant that, well, now we know how Snape is familiar with that
particular curse.  I'll hold your hand, Darrin, through the logic: 
Snape, bucking broom, laughing girl.  Bucking brooms historically
associated with curses, to which Snape knows the remedy.  I assume
that the broom-bucking curse is quite rare because no one else in the
stands, including Madam Hooch, seemed to know what to do about it. 
Possibility that Snape learned the curse/remedy from this previous
Snape/bucking broom/curse situation seems high.  That's all I was
saying.