[HPforGrownups] Digest Number 3344

Wed Jul 16 11:55:45 UTC 2003

No: HPFGUIDX 70821

Message: 1
   Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:01:57 -0000
   From: "revaunchanistx" <coyandbecky at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Why to Like and Not Like OoP

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "m.steinberger"
<steinber at z...> 
wrote:
> It is a shame that HP4GU has become a place where
intelligent 
criticism of HP feels unwelcome. No one is nasty, but
the only 
responses one gets to reasonable critique are
opposition from fans or 
blank approval from fellow anti-fans (for lack of a
better word to 
describe former HP fans who are now disappointed).
Delving into
HP's problems doesn't happen.
>

  It is also a shame that those with critisism of Oop
feel that their 
critiques are above critisism. You have felt the need
to pre-defend 
yourself twice in this post. The first one above and
this one "And 
before you argue about whether they are realistic or
not, let's
hear from some people who work in counseling with kids
and adults who 
have been through real-life equivalents of what these
characters have 
been through." 
 Obviously you are not one of the counselors or adults
you call upon 
to defend your argument of characters, yet you felt
competent enough 
to comment on their realism. Don't tell others they
can't.

 I wrote a long post that I deleted accidentally in
response to this 
post. I am going to make this one shorter and deal
with your supposed 
character flaws as they relate to Harry Potter and Ron
Weasley. You 
state that "To be realistic, Harry ought to be
suffering from Post-
Traumatic Stress Disorder, after the graveyard scene
combined with 
the severe lack of emotional support afterwards." To
be realistic 
Post- Traumatic Stress Disorder is a rather new
pshycological 
disorder. Also, to be realistic Harry exhibits none of
the pre-
cursors typical of children suffering from
post-truamatic stress 
disorder. 
 First of all Harry has a very stable home
environment. The Dursley's 
provide food, shelter, clothing and a safe environment
for Harry. This 
covers the first two steps in Maslow's hierarchy of
needs. 
  Maslow's hierarchy of needs is a sort of pyramid
that psychologists 
use to determine pschological development. At the
bottom of the 
pyramid is physiological needs (clothes, shelter,
food). The next step 
in the pyramid is safety. The third step is love, the
fourth is self 
esteem, and the fifth and final step is self
actualization.
  As I have already stated Harry's home environment
provides the 
first two steps. Harry is not troubled in the way that
children who 
are not provided these two steps are. In essence Harry
is a normal 
boy. He is only going through the emotions and needs
of a normal boy. 
Harry does not fit the profile of a candidate for ptsd
because he is 
right on level with Maslow. The Dursleys provided the
first two 
steps and the wizard world provides the rest. 
  Of course in defense of your argument Harry could be
a boy locked 
in a closet wallowing in his own urine and fecies and
imagining all 
of this stuff. In this case Harry would already be in
the full stages 
of ptsd. 

 In the case of Ron. Ron is exhibibiting the typical
behavior of a 
boy in his circumstances. Here are few things you
might of missed in 
your attempt to be overly critical and turn Ron into a
cardboard 
characiture. First of all, I will start with Ron's
background and 
upbringing prior to Hogwarts. Ron is the sixth of
seven children. He 
is the last boy in his family to enter Hogwarts. His
older brothers 
have already made their mark. Ron states this when he
first meets 
Harry on the Hogwarts Express. Ron believes he has a
lot to live to 
up to. In his first year at Hogwarts HRH stops
Voldemort. In his 
second, third and fourth year he continues to show
outstanding 
courage and genius. In his fifth year he tries out for
the Quidditch 
team. There was never an opening before. He makes the
team by showing 
some talent. Yet he is uncomfortalble in his role. He
has a lot to 
live up to. You state that Ron should still exhibit
some self doubt 
about his new role as quiddicth hero but remember it
was the last 
game of the year. He will probably exhibit some
anxiety in the first 
game next year. 

  Your expectations for character development are
"unrealistic." You 
take a less than layman's knowledge of psychosis and
try to dissect a 
master storyteller's characters. I do believe JKR is a
master 
storyteller. I know her books are classics in my
house. I will read 
them time and time again to my kids. I am sure others
will too, that is 
a classic. In closing, please stop comparing Rowling
with other 
modern or classic literature. Comparison is beneath
true literary 
critisism (yet every non-JKR fan does it, another
reason I loathe 
them). 

  "revaunchanistx" 

 This is a cogent reply. It makes much of the case for
most of us.  I would like to add my two cents and that
I am sure is more than my comment shall be worth. 
 I am at a loss to understand the bitterness of the
debate. If you think the evolution of the story and
characters is unreal and deeply troubling thus making
the series unfit why continue reading it much less try
to bring rabid fans to your way of thought. I notice
many espousing the theory that OOP proves JKR is not
the talented writer we self deluted ones think she is.
OK, but I still like the books. If I wanted to read a
story of a deeply disturbed child dealing with
horrible trauma by acting out I'm sure I could find
that. I however am lost in the world of a child who
has the strength of character to rise above things I
could not. If the writing is not as refined as others
oh well. I must not be adept enough to know or care. I
don't try to push you to read it if it isn't appealing
to you. Why do you feel you must try to lessen it for
me?

=====

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com