Snape: The fact that he exists/Love

[koinonia02]

No: HPFGUIDX 70988

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pooh" <carol_sutcliffe at y...> 
wrote:
> Why does James hate Snape so much? 
> 
> Is it just vile bullying, picking on the weak or outcast in the way 
> that teenagers (and for that matter some adults) will in order to 
> deflect attention and make sure that it happens to others and not 
to 
> you. 

"K"
It appeared James did his share of bullying and I don't excuse that 
as 'all 15 year old boys do it' because they don't. Even though I 
think James was a jerk in school, I don't hate him and I think he 
gets the short end of the deal in certain areas. He gave his life to 
defend his wife and son and that should not be forgotten. We know 
James and Lily defied Voldemort three times. Not a minor thing. 


> 
> Is it because he thinks (or knows) that Snape is wholly or part-
> vampire (I'm quite firmly in this camp although aware that JKR has 
> stated that she's planted alot of red herrrings).

If the vampire theory is a red herring then she seems to have gone 
overboard.

> 
> I believe that this is because he knows that he has a parallel with 
> Snape is some way. It is either the vampire/werewolf thing 
> I'd love to hear if this has occured to anyone else.
> 

"K"
The vampire/werewolf thing occured to me immediately upon reading 
this scene but I've never commented on it before. Actually, I just 
updated my vampire theory and left this part out only because I 
wanted to think about it longer.

"Lee" <dee_dolly7 at y...>Message 70539 

<<<However, considering that they have just taken their O.W.L.S and 
are about 15 years old, its more likely that they have NOT been 
discovered by Snape yet, so they wouldn't have to tread carefully.>>>

"Lee" <dee_dolly7 at y...> Message 70681 

<<<This brings up a FACINATING point for the Snape=Vampire lovers out 
there. Neville is afraid simple of Snape, because he exists. James 
hates Snape because he "exists">>>

"K"
Let's face it, vampires are not well thought of. I'm going to stand 
by my belief that Snape is a vampire/part-vampire and I believe 
James, Sirius, Lupin, and Peter knew it. I believe they knew this 
when Black played his little joke on Snape. According to most 
folklore werewolves and vampires are not very friendly with each 
other. Black might have thought it would be funny to see what a 
vampire would do with a werewolf. Of course this could have been a 
disaster for Lupin as much as for Snape so James steps in. Who is to 
say that James and crew have not been harassing Snape for what he is? 
Black says that James and Snape hated each other from the moment they 
met. Snape was into the Dark Arts and James always hated the Dark 
Arts. Maybe James had a bit of prejudice against certain creatures. 
In the Pensieve James did turn Snape upside down like a bat. Again, 
I'm not necessarily saying I believe there is a connection between 
that action and Snape being a vampire but it is worth looking at. 
Especially when you are desparate to find any clues of vampires in 
OoP <g>.

Lee:
<<<Now to the point. James and Sirius call him
Snivellus. Which is not only a clever play on his name, but also a 
clever play on his behavior.>>>

"K"
Yes, and you could start a whole new thread on that.

Lee:
<<<There are a few strange mentions in the books that I want to bring 
up. One, Snape hates James because he saved his life. Why? Why would 
James saving Snape's life make him hate him? Because now that James 
is dead, Snape has a debt he can never repay, and he is now trying to 
pay it off by keeping an eye on Harry.>>> 

"K"
Snape hated James before James saved his life. How awful now to be in 
debt to a man who has bullied and humilated you. The point I want to 
make is that since James is dead, does Snape have to spend the rest 
of his life trying to repay a debt he can't repay? Does he have to 
look after Harry the rest of his life? Surely not! 

Lee:
<<<Then, the thing with Sirius. Snape thinks, at first, Sirius killed 
James and Lily. If he hated James so much, wouldn't he not care so 
much.

What if, after James saved him, Snape actually started to CARE about 
James?>>>

"K"
I'm not buying into that explanation yet!

Lee:
<<<One, why Snape turned from the 
death eaters *because they killed James and Lily*>>>
 
"K"
It appears Snape turned from the DE's before the death of James and 
Lily. 

~~~"I have given evidence already on this matter," he said 
calmly. "Severus Snape was indeed a Death Eater. However, he rejoined 
our side before Lord Voldemort's downfall and turned spy for us, at 
great personal risk.~~~

Lee:
<<<But he HATES Sirius almost ten times as much as James! He has 
shown us that he would rather let Sirius die than ever admitting that 
the man is Innocent. He was "REVENGE" on somebody. He wants to get 
back at someone! He wants (in the words of Filch) "To see someone 
punished" for what happened. He wants whoever killed James to be 
punished! <<<snip>>>>Two: why he hates 
Sirius so much *because he was considered to be the person who killed 
them up until a point. >>>

"K"

Ah, but this is a big point. Why is Snape so mad that  James and Lily 
died? He does want to see someone punished for the deaths and he 
sincerely, and with good reason, believes it is Black. So...it 
appears the death of James and/or Lily had a big effect on Snape. 
I'll talk about what I believe it to be further down.

Lee:
<<<Three: (and this is a big three) Why he hates Harry so much. Harry 
is the child of "LILY" and James, 
the woman who Married James. Also, Harry is very similar in 
appearance to James. Imagine the pain, of coming into a classroom to 
teach each day to see your long past dead puppy-crush from school 
sitting in the front row? Would kind of hurt wouldn't it?>>>

"K"
If Snape had this puppy-crush or any other kind of love for Lily, 
would it really matter what Harry looked like? If Harry had looked 
like his mother would Snape had treated Harry any differently? IMHO I 
don't think so. If Snape had this love for Lily wouldn't he treat her 
child in a more favorable way? Snape doesn't and he truly seems to 
hate Harry. 

~~~"But he seemed to really 'hate' me." 
"Rubbish!" said Hagrid. "Why should he?"
Yet Harry couldn't help thinking that Hagrid didn't quite meet his 
eyes when he said that....Harry wondered if Hagrid had changed the 
subject on purpose.~~~

What does Hagrid know that he isn't telling? I could see where Hagrid 
wouldn't want to tell Harry in book one that Snape had this thing for 
his mother but after five books Hagrid still isn't saying. What would 
be the big deal? What would it change if Hagrid told Harry that Snape 
loved Lily? Nothing that I can think of. 

Which leads us back to the question of why Snape is so upset in the 
Shrieking Shack. I believe it is because the death of J/L caused 
Snape to lose someone who was very important to him. Their death put 
into action that which caused Snape to lose his love. How that is I'm 
not sure. It isn't that Snape was upset that J/L died because he 
loved one of them but it is what their death did to Snape in a 
personal manner. 

Speaking of Snape: 

Royal Albert Hall Appearance/June 26 2003
SF: <snip>...like Snape for example, are very hard to
love <snip> there's something rather sad about Snape as well, 
something very lonely <snip> slowly we just get this idea
that maybe he's not so bad after all.

JKR: Yeees. You shouldn't think he's too nice, let me just say that.

SF: Right I shall bear that in mind. Worth watching Serverus Snape

JKR: He's worth keeping and eye on, definitely

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe JKR is saying 'yes' to several 
things, including the bit about Snape being sad and lonely. Why is he 
sad and lonely? Is it because after all these years he is just a 
loner? Has he never been loved or loved? Is he sad and lonely after 
all these years because of Lily? Is that it? Or is he sad and lonely 
because he has lost those who were important to him? Go back to the 
Shrieking Shack incident where Snape wants revenge and then think of 
him being lonely after all these years. I believe it all revolved 
around Snape and love but someone who loved him in return.

Interview:
~~~The Connection/12 October 1999

What about Snape?
Snape is a very sadistic teacher <snip> He's not a particularly 
pleasant person at all. However, everyone should keep their eye on 
Snape, I'll just say that because there is more to him than meets
the 
eye and you will find out part of what I am talking about if you read 
Book 4.~~~

"K"
This is the book we find out that Snape was a DE.
 
Continuing with the interview:
~~~One of our internet correspondents wondered if Snape is going to 
fall in love. 

(JKR laughs) Who on earth would want Snape in love with them?
That's 
a very horrible idea. 

There's an important kind of redemptive pattern to Snape

JKR:He, um, there's so much I wish I could say to you, and I
can't 
because it would ruin. I promise you, whoever asked that question, 
can I just say to you that I'm slightly stunned that you've
said that 
and you'll find out why I'm so stunned if you read Book 7.
That's all 
I'm going to say.~~~

"K"
I know there is more than one way to look at those comments. But I 
believe we are seeing a man who was a DE who is now trying to make 
things right (somewhat). JKR says to the person asking the question 
of 'will Snape fall in love', "I'm slightly stunned that
you've said 
that and you'll find out why I'm so stunned if you read Book
7. 
That's all I'm going to say."

As sadistic and cruel as Snape is, as unlovable as JKR has made him 
out to be, I do believe he was/is in love and it was with someone who 
loved him in return. Not an unrequited love. The man is out for 
revenge. Plus, if you have had a bad childhood, been bullied at the 
place(Hogwarts)where you thought things might change, if you are a 
vampire, if after all this you find your one love and then lose her, 
wouldn't you be mad and want revenge? And of all things you lose this 
person because of...James Potter. Yep, one of your enemies. How 
rotten would that be. Especially if you had a son and guess 
what...your son died and James son is alive and a hero. Oh the pain 
and agony. Yes, I know my imagination is running wild, but there has 
to be something driving Snape and we don't know what it is yet.

Then there is Florence being kissed. We don't know who is kissing 
her. Black, Snape, even Lupin? IMO we are going to see Florence 
again. The only reason I would hesitate to put Snape with Florence is 
because of the age issue. Bertha, who caught them kissing, was 
several years ahead of Snape. So if Snape is kissing Florence he is 
doing so at the ripe old age of about 14 and that still seems pretty 
young to me.

We can't overlook the interview concerning Hogwarts Professors and 
their spouses. I still believe Snape is one of those who is/was 
married. Whether she is alive or not I don't know. She could be a DE 
whom Snape left. She could still be alive but unwilling to put up 
with the kind of man he is. She could be alive but unable to enjoy 
life with Severus due to the fact that Voldemort is still a danger. 
And of course Dumbledore is the Secret Keeper. Dumbledore trusts 
Snape because he knows Snape will do what it takes to get back to the 
family. That is why I said Snape is redeemed 'somewhat'. He might not 
be all that interested in the good side. He is only interested in his 
loved one. Or she could have died years ago and now Snape is just a 
sad, lonely man bent on revenge. So many possibilites and so many 
years to go before we know.

What I do know is that JKR continues to tell us to keep an eye on 
Snape. Why? 

"K"

...least pleasant of all, an ornate crystal bottle with a large opal 
set into the stopper, full of what Harry was quite sure was blood.