Snape: The fact that he exists/Love

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 71030

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "koinonia02" <Koinonia2 at h...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pooh" <carol_sutcliffe at y...> 
> wrote:
> > Why does James hate Snape so much? 

> <<<Now to the point. James and Sirius call him
> Snivellus. Which is not only a clever play on his name, but also a 
> clever play on his behavior.>>>
 "K"
> Yes, and you could start a whole new thread on that.
>
Valky: 
I would like that thread to start I am interested in what others have 
to say.

> Lee:
> <<<There are a few strange mentions in the books that I want to 
bring up. One, Snape hates James because he saved his life. Why? Why 
would James saving Snape's life make him hate him? Because now that 
James is dead, Snape has a debt he can never repay, and he is now 
trying to pay it off by keeping an eye on Harry.>>> 
> 
> "K"
> Snape hated James before James saved his life. How awful now to be 
in debt to a man who has bullied and humilated you. The point I want 
to make is that since James is dead, does Snape have to spend the 
rest of his life trying to repay a debt he can't repay? Does he have 
to look after Harry the rest of his life? Surely not! 
> 

Valky:
MHO Snape hates that James saved him. He hates that the boy he pinned 
so much of his righteousness against, was virtuous in this one action.
It sucks for him he can't rest on his contentment that James was the 
epitome of unworthy. It's got this big nettle of Potter the righteous 
in it. In POA he tries to explain it away to himself "James was in on 
the joke", "James was just showing off" etc. But Snape is intelligent 
enough to realise he cannot deny that James was virtuous in his 
actions that night and thats what he hates. He wants James to be 
indebted to his own righteousness not the other way round and he 
hates that he has to *do good* for the image of his nemesis to 
achieve it.
He doesn't have to save Harry at all, or do anything for Harry for 
that matter. He chooses to, begrudgingly, for his own self 
satisfaction. Thats all he wants, satisfaction that James did not 
best him again that night. Once he gets it, unless he is suddenly 
struck with good nature he has never possessed, he would be more than 
happy to throw the young messiah to the wolf himself.
Thats how I see Snape.

> Lee:
> <<<Then, the thing with Sirius. Snape thinks, at first, Sirius 
killed James and Lily. If he hated James so much, wouldn't he not 
care so much. What if, after James saved him, Snape actually started 
to CARE about 
> James?>>>

 "K"
> I'm not buying into that explanation yet!

Valky:
Me neither. I am entirely convinced that Snape only *cared* about the 
James and Lily betrayal because it satisfied his self-righteousness 
in giving Sirius Black a comeuppance he could only dream of before.

> Lee:
> <<<One, why Snape turned from the 
> death eaters *because they killed James and Lily*>>>
>  
> "K"
> It appears Snape turned from the DE's before the death of James and 
> Lily. 
> 
> ~~~"I have given evidence already on this matter," he said 
> calmly. "Severus Snape was indeed a Death Eater. However, he 
rejoined 
> our side before Lord Voldemort's downfall and turned spy for us, at 
> great personal risk.~~~

Valky:
MHO Snape turned because of the prophecy. I don't know how though.

> Lee:
> <<<But he HATES Sirius almost ten times as much as James! He has 
> shown us that he would rather let Sirius die than ever admitting 
that the man is Innocent. 
> 
> "K"
>Ah, but this is a big point. Why is Snape so mad that  James and 
Lily died? He does want to see someone punished for the deaths and he 
> sincerely, and with good reason, believes it is Black. So...it 
> appears the death of James and/or Lily had a big effect on Snape. 
> I'll talk about what I believe it to be further down.
> 

Valky:
MHO again, Sirius was nastier than James when they were 15. Snape 
hated James because Snape was a powerful boy who chose his enemy. 
That enemy became his nemesis and his tormentor. 
Sirius was there enjoying the torture of Snape, Continuuing his 
torment at every opportunity. 
I assume from my take on the memory that Sirius was a much jaded 
cynical and angry boy and took everything out on Snape. 
Snape hated Sirius because Sirius wasn't his opponent. He was just a 
nasty peice of work wih a powerful best friend to protect him. 
I am not saying Sirius was not a talented wizard. Indeed he was most 
able, but Snape knew, to himself, he was better. His bitterness and 
rage at Sirius was fourfold of anyone else, because Sirius got away 
with being as indecent as he could to Snape, when he simply shouldn't 
have.

>K:  
> Continuing with the interview:
> ~~~One of our internet correspondents wondered if Snape is going to 
> fall in love. 
> 
> (JKR laughs) Who on earth would want Snape in love with them?
> That's a very horrible idea. 
> 
> There's an important kind of redemptive pattern to Snape
> 
> JKR:He, um, there's so much I wish I could say to you, and I
> can't 
> because it would ruin. I promise you, whoever asked that question, 
> can I just say to you that I'm slightly stunned that you've
> said that 
> and you'll find out why I'm so stunned if you read Book 7.
> That's all 
> I'm going to say.~~~
> 
> "K"
> I know there is more than one way to look at those comments. But I 
> believe we are seeing a man who was a DE who is now trying to make 
> things right (somewhat)

Valky:
Yes and only somewhat. Snape has a sense of what is righteous and I 
believe he simply chose Dumbledore over Voldemort.
We'll find out why sometime down the track I am sure.

> Then there is Florence being kissed. We don't know who is kissing 
> her. Black, Snape, even Lupin? IMO we are going to see Florence 
> again. The only reason I would hesitate to put Snape with Florence 
is because of the age issue. Bertha, who caught them kissing, was 
> several years ahead of Snape. So if Snape is kissing Florence he is 
> doing so at the ripe old age of about 14 and that still seems 
pretty young to me.

Valky:
Ok here is a thing I wanted to talk about.
Bertha saw someone "kissing" Florence. 
If Snape is a Vampire or part thereof it makes sense that someone 
catching him "kissing" would be, shall we say, Bad?
Maybe Bertha thought she was simply teasing Snape about his lovelife, 
if indeed it was Snape. And, if it was Vampire!Snape, here's foolish 
Bertha Jorkins inadvertantly, revealing to the entire school how 
Florence got the bite marks on her neck, perhaps?

> K:
> ...least pleasant of all, an ornate crystal bottle with a large 
opal 
> set into the stopper, full of what Harry was quite sure was blood.