[HPforGrownups] re:The possibility of a gay character (WAS: Snape: The fact that he exists)

[Kathryn Cawte]

No: HPFGUIDX 71238

 laxer

As dreambeliever said, this topic is getting ridiculous. What i see
happening here is people deciding that there must be a gay character
somewhere in the books. Once people decide that there must be a character
who is gay in the book, finding someone who fits the description is fairly
easy. It is like the witch hunts (yes pun intended) of the middle ages. As
JKR put it, the people were bad at telling who was a witch. They used
sterotypes and were wrong frequently. Same thing with the gay issue. people
decide who is and who isnt gay, and frequently dont bother asking the person
 therefore the person is put into the gay box. That is really what i see
happening here. "Sirius and Lupin must be gay because they imbraced".
earlier, I think i was told to be more "mature" and not to go "no no no dont
show us *that* ". I thow the mature issue back into your teeth. If you are
really so mature, you should be mature enough to handle two men (or women
for that matter) embracing
without immediately deciding that they are gay. 

Me 

Why is it that speculating on the sexuality of a character is seen as so
different from speculating on their moral character. People argue (for
example) that Lupin is evil and produce evidence which could be interpreted
that way or could be interpreted in a completely different way and they're
not accused of a witch hunt or perpetrating a stereotype. I don't think
there *must* be a gay character in the book and I certainly don't say that
because they embrace they *must* be gay. But what is wrong about saying that
the evidence could be interpreted as showing a romantic relationship rather
than a platonic one? And obviously from the number of people who have
identified themselves as Sirius-Remus shippers the evidence *can* be
interpreted in that way. You say that people are looking for someone who
fits the sterotype of a gay  person - well if I was looking for that I
wouldn't pick either Remus or Sirius - there are other characters who fit
the stereotype far more. Your comment about people using stereotypes in rl
and not asking the person involved is irrelevent - we're not talking about
real people and we can't ask them any more than we could ask Ron exactly
what his emotional state of mind was in regards to becoming a prefect and
Keeper - we have to analyse the clues we are given and make allowances  for
the viewpoint we are observing them from. That is what we are doing with the
discussions about whether any of the characters are gay - interpreting the
evidence we have given while being aware that we are seeing it from the view
point of a 13 year old boy. I promise you if I had the option of conjuring
Remus Lupin up into my living room and asking him straight out I would (well
admittedly asking him if he was gay wouldn't be my first action if I could
conjure him up, but I'd get around to it at some point <g>) but I can't. The
fact is that any of the characters that aren;t in a relationship *(and those
who are actually but let's not complicate things) *could be* gay. Equally
they could be straight, bisexual, asexual or anywhere on the scale really.
Why is it that we can speculate on any detail of the characters or the world
*except* for sexcuality. Sexuality is as much a part of life as anything
else we've discussed. Really I don't see that discussing a ship which is m/m
is any more or less valid than discussing a ship which fits a more 
traditional' model.
 
laxer again
finally all of these assumptions are based on pretty hurtful sterotypes, and
personally, i dont think that she would choose sterotypical traits to show
who is/is not gay. that is just the feel i get from her writing. Ultimately
people will read what they want into characters in any book. because all of
the relationship stuff is pretty subjective, just leave it to the fanfic
community
 
Me again -

I really would like to know exactly which gay stereotypes you think Sirius
or Remus or Severus or Draco or any of the other characters we've mentioned
adhere to. Frankly I think the only man who could really be described as
fitting a gay stereotype is Gilderoy and pretty much no one is speculating
about his sexuality. Several people have pointed out that he fits the
stereotype but I haven't seen anyone shipping for him at all. (possibly
because we don't want to inflict him on anyone else - although I do have a
friend who swears that in the duelling scene in the movie there was definite
sexual tension between him and Snape!)

If you think that the relationship stuff is subjective then don't read about
it - or at least go and tell the Severus/Lily people and the Harry/Hermione
or Ron/Hermione people to leave it to the fanfic community as well. But
really *everything* we discuss here is subjective because if it's perfectly
clear and spelled out then there's nothing to discuss.

K