First meetings; Poor poor Slytherin at the House Cup

[slytherinspirit]

No: HPFGUIDX 71394

Darrin said -
> 
> 
> So the upshot seems to be this:
> 
> An 11-year-old who has had his head spun around in the last month, 
learning 
> he was a wizard, his parents were killed by a Dark Wizard, learned 
from a 
> source he has no reason to distrust that Slytherins have a greater 
chance of 
> turning out bad, seeing a boy who insulted his two friends in the 
Wizard World 
> is burning to become a Slyth must make a decision that will "unite 
the houses" 
> (another thread) by ignoring the friends he's made so far and 
joining with 
> House Slytherin, which he could have done had he wished it.
> 
> Whew, let's ask him to cure cancer while we're at it.
> 
> Since we're so fired up to espouse Draco's point of view, I thought 
I'd bring 
> back Harry's.  Just for fun.
> 
Me -

Or you know we could try a novel approach whereby you read my post 
and try and address the point I'm actually making rather than making 
up your own just so you can argue with it.

I can't find my exact quote but what I said was that if Harry had 
been in Slytherin he might have been able to Unite the Houses as the 
Sorting Hat espouses. I did not say that he had any good reason to 
want to be in Slytherin or that I thought based on the information he 
had that he should have made that decision, merely that if he had 
made it that might have been the consequence.

At least try and argue with what I am saying rather than what you 
have decided I am going to say.

I'm now snipping several of your points because Random has pretty 
much covered what I was going to say and I'm not going to wast time 
posting what amounts to me too.

Darrin
> 1) I've just been in a thread where I was told essentially, that UK 
school 
> culture is to suck it up and get on with it. and disappointments, 
sarcasm and 
> meanness are good training tools for life. So,  perhaps Slytherin 
should get 
> over their disappointment already.
> 
Me -

actually I would argue with that interpretation of school culture. I 
will agree that teachers tend to be quite sarcastic and that you need 
to learn to cope with that if you're going to get anywhere. However I 
do not find that a reasonable excuse for bad behaviour on the part of 
the supposedly responsible adults in the faculty. Just because life 
isn't fair is no reason to act in a manifestly unfair way. Yes life 
is full of humiliations, do I find that to be a reasonable excuse for 
humiliating Slytherin? No I don't, any more than I find well people 
are mean to be a reasonable excuse for Snape's comment to Hermione 
about her teeth. Leaving aside whether or not he would have sent her 
to the hospital because I don't know whether he would or not the 
comment was over the line ad I fully condemn it. As I have said 
earlier I believe that the school in general exhibits an unconcious 
favouritism towards gryffindors and that Snape shows a conscious and 
directed prejudice against them. Neither thing excuses the other. 
they are both wrong.

Darrin
> 2) The whole school knew what happened down there, that the spirit 
of V-Mort 
> was there. D-Dore was still teaching when he gave Gryff the points. 
He 
> essentially said, "Stand against V-Mort, and you will be 
rewarded."  Right 
> path, easy path, etc...

Me -

I have argued at length that the points were not deserved. I'm not 
repeating it, you know my feelings. But even if the points were 
deserved he could have given them out immediately afterwards instead 
of waiting till the last minute - he didn't. It was humiliating for 
Slytherin. We can debate whether or not the hall was decorated by the 
school or the Slytherins and whether they were jumping the gun or not 
forever without ever coming to a conclusion. There is no real proof 
either way. But the fact is 1) it was unnecessary to do it in that 
way and 2) it was humiliating for the slytherins.
> 
Darrin -
if Harry's mother's protection only extended to physical touch and 
AK, 
> then I hope she saved the receipt from the Sacrifice Store, because 
she got 
> ripped off.
> 

Me -

If his protection from Lily's sacrifice continues beyond the marking 
him with love thing and that one specific application of the AK then 
there is no need for the protection provided by the Dursleys and 
Harry could spend the summer with the Weasleys because he's 
bulletproof. I believe the only lasting effect of her sacrifice was 
the fact that voldemort could not touch him and since GoF he's 
probably lost that too.

darrin
"OK, you were out of 
> bed, but geez, nicely played" seems to be the sentiment. 

Me -

actually thesituation is more like well you handed this thing to the 
bad guy on a plate but you got it back again and defeated him in the 
process so let's ignore the fact that you were nearly responsible for 
the resurrection of Voldemort and reward you for getting lucky.

Darrin -
Ron beat McG's 
> chess set; Hermione beat Snape's logic puzzle in about 12 seconds 
and 
> Harry showed incredible guts. Not to mention, Neville grew a spine 
for the first 
> time in his life.
> 

Me -

Well let's ignore the Neville thing because I've said several times 
he deserved the points. You seem to be praising Hermione and Ron for 
the wrong things imo. It is not Ron's defeat of the chess set that 
was a worthy act but his self sacrifice, it is not Hermione's 
intelligence so much as her ability to remain calm under pressure and 
use that knowledge. I have said that I believe their actions worthy 
of some recognition but not reward. i think the conversation should 
have gone more along the lines of "What you did while down there was 
incredibly heroic - but if you ever put yourself in such a dangerous 
and pointless situation again you will be expelled so fast your feet 
won't touch!"

Darrin -
> Three out of the four -- Hermione seems unscathed -- were injured 
to varying 
> degrees in this endeavor.  To brush off this physical sacrifice 
with some 
> backroom ceremony so as not to hurt the Slyth's feelings, 
especially when the 
> Slyths need to learn a lesson about which side is the best one to 
be on (which 
> might help them with their oh so crippling moral dilemma, no?) is a 
slap to 
> Harry, Ron, Neville and Hermione.
> 
Me -

Being hurt in itself is not worthy of reward - they got hurt because 
they were somewhere they shouldn't have been, doing something they 
shouldn't have been doing. As i say they didn't deserve the points in 
the first place but if they had to have them then the points shouldf 
have been awarded the same way they are usually awarded - as soon 
after the event as possible. When they so bravely fought the troll 
(that's sarcasm btw since while they showed courage they also showed 
the corresponding Gryffindor weaknes, no actual thought)they were 
awarded the points immediately aftrewards. The only other reference 
we have to any kind of special ceremony is Riddle being awarded some 
kind of trophy for framing Hagrid

The method in which Gryffindor one was unnecessarily humiliating.

K