[HPforGrownups] Re: Ghosts

[Lady Macbeth]

No: HPFGUIDX 71768

Prewarning on this one - bear with me and my long post, because the topic of
ghosts in Harry Potter is something that fascinates me, if you couldn't tell
already. ~_^


Marianne Said:
>>> And just how does that work, I wonder?  Who in the Ministry is in
charge of ghosts?  Probably an Unspeakable. However, the idea that
living mortals can make decisions regarding an apparition from the
afterlife seems peculiar to me.  Unless, of course, Myrtle is not
telling all she knows.<<<

It seems that ghosts fall under the same kind of "regulation" as any other
magical being or creature. Remember, for the most part Centaurs don't seem
to care one whit or another about the "regulations" made about them by the
Ministry.  The Ministry even has a Centaur Liason Office, even though none
have ever used it.

Myrtle, and other ghosts, would likely fall under the jurisdiction of the
Spirit Division of the Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical
Creatures.  Just how they go about such "control" is unclear.  However, it
seems that as with the centaurs, it relies partially on the ghost not having
any complaints about going along with the regulations.  It's also possible
that other ghosts may be called in to help assist - there's been mention
that the staff at Hogwarts will fetch the Bloody Baron for help if Peeves
gets too out of control.

I can't find my copy of Fantastic Beasts at the moment to quote the page and
direct quote on the above, but the information can also be found at the
Lexicon: http://www.hp-lexicon.org/ministry-depts.html under "Department for
the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures".

I don't think the Unspeakables would work with ghosts, because IIRC they
work in the Department of Mysteries.

Marianne Said:
 >>> Nick's biggest reason for why he's a ghost and Sirius wouldn't be one
centered around fear of death.  I took his words to me that he, Nick,
had been afraid of death in general, not just at the moment of his
sloppy execution.  He also implied, almost as if he had received this
knowledge from somewhere, that Sirius had moved on and had chosen not
to become a ghost.  Is that because Sirius was not afraid of death,
in general, although he wore an expression of fear at the time of his
trip through the veil?

Nick also tells Harry that he knows nothing of the secrets of death,
so what happens to the non-ghost souls is not something he can
comment on. Somehow, I think by the end of the series we will know
more than Nick does.

But, Nick wasn't definitive as to whether the choice to remains as a
ghost is made at the time of death, when the body is still
technically alive, or if the choice is allowed to be made once the
person in question has died.<<<

I think one of the reasons that Nick wasn't definitive, and why he admitted
that he doesn't know, is BECAUSE he doesn't, and he doesn't want to get
Harry's hopes up.  Obviously, only a small percentage become ghosts, or the
wizarding world would be FULL of ghosts - more ghosts than people, possibly.
Several points in the conversation suggested that Nick understood the pain
that Harry was feeling, but REALLY didn't want to be involved in the
situation for fear of hurting Harry more either way.  For example:

Order of the Phoenix Pg 859, American Hardback edition:
----- "Nick, can I ask you something?"

A most peculiar expression stole over Nearly Headless Nick's face as he
inserted a finger in the stiff ruff at his neck and tugged it a little
straighter, apparently to give himself thinking time.  He desisted only when
his partially severed neck seemed about to give way completely.

"Er -- now, Harry?" said Nick, looking discomforted.  "Can't it wait until
after the feast?" -----

Nick's wording later suggests while he feels he chose that route, he really
doesn't know - and when he starts to say where Harry might find out, Harry
cuts him off.

Pg 861:
----- "He will not come back," repeated Nick quietly. "He will have...gone
on."

"What d'you mean, 'gone on'?" said Harry quickly. "Gone where? Listen --
what happens when you die, anyway? Where do you go? Why doesn't everyone
come back? Why isn't this place full of ghosts? Why --?"

"I cannot answer," said Nick.

"You're dead, aren't you?" said Harry exasperatedly. "Who can answer better
than you?"

"I was afraid of death," said Nick.  "I chose to remain behind.  I sometimes
wonder whether I oughtn't have...Well, that's neither here nor there...In
fact, _I_ am neither here nor there..." He gave a small sad chuckle.  "I
know nothing of the secrets of death, Harry, for I chose my feeble imitation
of life instead.  I believe learned wizards study the matter in the
Department of Mysteries --"

"Don't talk to me about that place!" said Harry fiercely. -----

Moaning Myrtle makes an allusion also to the moments around the time of
death as well.

Chamber of Secrets Pg 299 American Paperback edition:

----- "Ooooh, it was dreadful," she said with relish.  "It happened right in
here.  I died in this very stall.  I remember it so well.  I'd hidden
because Olive Hornby was teasing me about my glasses.  The door was locked,
and I was crying, and then I heard somebody come in.  They said something
funny.  A different language, I think it must have been.  Anyway, what
really got me was that it was a _boy_ speaking.  So I unlocked the door, to
tell him to go and use his own toilet, and then --"  Myrtle swelled
importantly, her face shining.  "I _died_."

"How?" said Harry.

"No idea," said Myrtle in hushed tones.  "I just remember seeing a pair of
great, big, yellow eyes.  My whole body sort of seized up, and then I was
floating away...."  She looked dreamily at Harry.  "And then I came back
again.  I was determined to haunt Olive Hornby, you see.  Oh, she was sorry
she'd ever laughed at my glasses." -----

This, put alongside Nick's statement, suggests that the ghosts really don't
have an exact idea of how they came back, only that both of them had an
attachment/unfinished business that inevitably led to them remaining on as
ghosts.  Myrtle has mentioned many times how miserable she is, which
suggests that if there were a way for her to leave, she would.

Bits and pieces from Nick's Deathday party stick in my mind as well:

Chamber of Secrets Pg 130:

----- "A deathday party?" said Hermione keenly when Harry had changed at
last and joined her and Ron in the common room.  "I bet there aren't many
living people who can say they've been to one of those -- it'll be
fascinating!"

"Why would anyone want to celebrate the day they died?" said Ron, who was
halfway through his Potions homework and grumpy.  "Sounds dead depressing to
me..." -----

Pg 133:

----- Harry watched, amazed, as a portly ghost approached the table,
crouched low, and walked through it, his mouth held wide so that it passed
through one of the stinking salmon.

"Can you taste it if you walk through it?" Harry asked him.

"Almost," said the ghost sadly, and he drifted away.

"I expect they've let it rot to give it a stronger flavor," said Hermione
knowledgeably, pinching her nose and leaning closer to look at the putrid
haggis. -----

Pg 134:

----- Unlike the ghosts around them, Peeves the Poltergeist was the very
reverse of pale and transparent.  He was wearing a bright orange party hat,
a revolving bow tie, and a broad grin on his wide, wicked face. -----

Pg 135:

----- "Don't lie to me," Myrtle gasped, tears now flooding down her face,
while Peeves chuckled happily over her shoulder.  "D'you think I don't know
what people call me behind my back?  Fat Myrtle! Ugly Myrtle! Miserable,
moaning, moping Myrtle!"

"You've forgotten pimply," Peeves hissed in her ear.

Moaning Myrtle burst into anguished sobs and fled from the dungeon.  Peeves
shot after her, pelting her with moldy peanuts, yelling "_Pimply! Pimply!_"

"Oh, dear," said Hermione sadly. -----

Pg 156:

----- "No one wants to upset me!  That's a good one!" howled Myrtle.  "My
life was nothing but misery at this place and now people come along ruining
my death!"

"We wanted to ask you if you've seen anything funny lately," said Hermione
quickly. "Because a cat was attacked right outside your front door on
Halloween."

"Did you see anyone near here that night?" said Harry.

"I wasn't paying attention," said Myrtle dramatically.  "Peeves upset me so
much I came in here and tried to _kill_ myself.  Then, of course, I
remembered that I'm -- that I'm --"

"Aready dead," said Ron helpfully. -----

These bits and pieces suggest that there really is more going on with life
and death than anyone knows; this may be one of the reasons that Nick was
reluctant to talk to Harry about it - Harry would get the idea that Sirius
or even his parents could come back and see him, when there was a very
strong likelihood - based on percentages and statistics alone - that they
would not.  Nick would have likely thought it better that Harry believe them
gone forever and be overjoyed at their possible return than to go on hoping
forever only to be disappointed and possibly even stuck as a ghost some day
himself.

-Lady Macbeth




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